Hip-Hop Culture Wars

luka

Well-known member
Although I didn't actually want to just make it about 1997, I wanted to talk more generally about fights over what hiphop should mean but i feel sloppy today so I started reminiscing

Not capable of thought
 
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luka

Well-known member
Was it Puff Daddy et al who ushered in this era of greed exoneration with their “player hater” hating?

Just reading corpsey blog while I wait to see if anyone can be dragged into an argument to distract me temporarily from the awful futility of my own existence and saw this right up the top
 

luka

Well-known member
I'm using carefully selected extracts for public shaming purposes on my twitter account as we speak
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I read it back and its self deprecating enough for me to disavow it easily. Phew

I wish you blogged luka if I was shipwrecked I would take a live feed of your opinions over the complete Shakespeare all day
 

luka

Well-known member
That's kind thank you mate. I would like to get back into writing but a blog for someone with my non existent profile feels futile and I don't write for the sake of writing. I need attention and some level of interaction.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
rawkus wasnt all terrible. i know its cool to disown underground rap these days but thats as bullshit as people disowning anything that isnt for 'the real heads'.
 

luka

Well-known member
I've been thinking about that and I'm not sure it's true. That underground movement was basically all bad
I was trying to think of an exception and could only think of Dr octagon which only half counts

Oh just remembered Simon says but again that only half counts
 
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luka

Well-known member
I would be Interested in and not instantly dismissive of an argument to the contrary though
 

luka

Well-known member
For me the unfortunate thing is artists like oc for example are suddenly left without a context to work in.

They've perfectly evolved to fit an.environment which doesn't exist any more. These specialised creatures flapping and writhing about in air they can barely breathe
 

luka

Well-known member
If I was going to make an argument it would focus on the self conscious experimentalism of El-P and sir menelik because it's not merely reactionary.It's not defined by its opposition to;
Wack mcs, big booty bitches, r&b singers, blunts, versace glasses, etc.
 
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luka

Well-known member
But, to continue picking a fight with myself, it's a limited argument. El-P ultimately less weird and less accomplished than various big name producers of the same era and menelik is just a footnote
 

luka

Well-known member
"I Used To Love H.E.R." lyrics
COMMON LYRICS
Download "I Used To Love H.E.…" Ringtone
"I Used To Love H.E.R."

[Verse One:]
I met this girl, when I was ten years old
And what I loved most she had so much soul
She was old school, when I was just a shorty
Never knew throughout my life she would be there for me
ont he regular, not a church girl she was secular
Not about the money, no studs was mic checkin her
But I respected her, she hit me in the heart
A few New York niggaz, had did her in the park
But she was there for me, and I was there for her
Pull out a chair for her, turn on the air for her
and just cool out, cool out and listen to her
Sittin on a bone, wishin that I could do her
Eventually if it was meant to be, then it would be
because we related, physically and mentally
And she was fun then, I'd be geeked when she'd come around
Slim was fresh yo, when she was underground
Original, pure untampered and down sister
Boy I tell ya, I miss her

[Verse Two:]
Now periodically I would see
ol girl at the clubs, and at the house parties
She didn't have a body but she started gettin thick quick
DId a couple of videos and became afrocentric
Out goes the weave, in goes the braids beads medallions
She was on that tip about, stoppin the violence
About my people she was teachin me
By not preachin to me but speakin to me
in a method that was leisurely, so easily I approached
She dug my rap, that's how we got close
But then she broke to the West coast, and that was cool
Cause around the same time, I went away to school
And I'm a man of expandin, so why should I stand in her way
She probably get her money in L.A.
And she did stud, she got big pub but what was foul
She said that the pro-black, was goin out of style
She said, afrocentricity, was of the past
So she got into R&B hip-house bass and jazz
Now black music is black music and it's all good
I wasn't salty, she was with the boys in the hood
Cause that was good for her, she was becomin well rounded
I thought it was dope how she was on that freestyle shit
Just havin fun, not worried about anyone
And you could tell, by how her titties hung

[Verse Three:]
I might've failed to mention that the shit was creative
But once the man got you well he altered the native
Told her if she got an energetic gimmick
That she could make money, and she did it like a dummy
Now I see her in commercials, she's universal
She used to only swing it with the inner-city circle
Now she be in the burbs lickin rock and dressin hip
And on some dumb shit, when she comes to the city
Talkin about poppin glocks servin rocks and hittin switches
Now she's a gangsta rollin with gangsta bitches
Always smokin blunts and gettin drunk
Tellin me sad stories, now she only fucks with the funk
Stressin how hardcore and real she is
She was really the realest, before she got into showbiz
I did her, not just to say that I did it
But I'm committed, but so many niggaz hit it
That she's just not the same lettin all these groupies do her
I see niggaz slammin her, and takin her to the sewer
But I'ma take her back hopin that the shit stop
Cause who I'm talkin bout y'all is hip-hop
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I don't like Mos Def anymore esp after he tried to come at the big dog Tim but I still think his Rawkus era stuff is good. I mean I'm sure Crowley can do this but I don't think you can deny how talented a rapper he was and he had a lot of stuff to say other than anti Versace rap talk.

To me the most talented rapper to come out of that whole late 90s underground/independent movement was MF Doom.

If you compare Doom and Mos Def to Cash Money etc then they obviously come out looking less exciting and exuberant, but that sort of rap music has its own qualities. It really is the condescending attitude it takes towards non indie rap that grates. (And the superiority complex its fans have too.)

It was quite cool in 98 more or less when I got into rap that you had hardcore rappers like DMX, Big Pun and Noreaga getting radio play and Pharoah Monch making a huge club track. I suppose the split between the underground and mainstream widened after that, although I suppose in some respects everything these days is much more mixed up.
 

luka

Well-known member
As an aside I used to love her was released in 1994.
Funny to me that in the midst of what some now refer back to as a golden age others were already bemoaning a fall from grace

Doom came out of native tongues affiliated kmd so like monch and kool Keith he predates the 'underground' movement.
 
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rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
For me the unfortunate thing is artists like oc for example are suddenly left without a context to work in.
might be getting your point mixed up here, but thats always the way though isnt it in any genre?

OC i would say is doing okay, hes put out a few albums in the last 5 or so years so id say he does have a context, just not the previous one he had, which is pretty normal considering he was always a bit of an underground favourite anyway.

people think of underground rap as some corny rap preservationist association, but the first soundbombing had people like company flow (speaking of which, the last big juss album is amazing), mos def (never liked the early singles and he is actually kind of overrated, but i did like the BOBS album), ra the rugged man, sir menelik, none of whom are shit.

But, to continue picking a fight with myself, it's a limited argument. El-P ultimately less weird and less accomplished than various big name producers of the same era and menelik is just a footnote

who was weirder? fantastic damage was pretty stunning.

as far as rappers just ageing and losing their position, i think thats pretty normal.

melle mell or grandmaster caz werent really revered in the late 80s.
rakim got lots of respect after his peak which i suppose was different, but he didnt exactly make his best songs in the mid 90s, even with guys like premier behind him.
and now apart from certain big names like wu tang, nas or jay-z, most 90s names arent really drawing big crowds either (even mobb deep play to a small core audience).
hip hop doesnt make it easy for the previous generation. premier isnt exactly producing hits for wiz kalifa or even jay-z who he used to do a token song for every album. occasionally youll get someone like kool g rap who had a decent comeback run in the mid-late 90s (even if it got a bit samey), or juicy j these days, but for the most part, most dont make it past generations. busta is kind of an anomaly.
 
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luka

Well-known member
It's the way with any genre, yes. Change is inevitable, has good and bad consequences.
 
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