Jeremy Corbyn

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Originally it was 'Corbyn once knew a guy who said something anti-semitic a decade later', now its 'Labour MP criticises Israel'. Same old guff.

Well hang on a sec, criticizing Israel is one thing - if you're talking about the case I think you're talking about (and there's been a spate of them lately), Naz Shah did a bit more than that: she suggested deporting Israel's entire Jewish population to the US!

Look, the fact that the Right loves to beat Labour with the anti-Semitism stick doesn't mean that the accusation is never justified. And of course they're not MPs but a number of Labour councillors has said some absolutely shocking things.
 
Last edited:

Leo

Well-known member
viewing this from afar and obviously not plugged in like you all, but from here this sounds oddly similar to when UKIP would have occasional MPs saying "outrageous" things and farage would repeatedly have to say "oh, this is just a random comment that doesn't represent an institutional problem with the party and they will be dealt with", etc.

is it different? not trolling, just a dumb yank asking.
 

droid

Well-known member
Well hang on a sec, criticizing Israel is one thing - if you're talking about the case I think you're talking about (and there's been a spate of them lately), Naz Shah did a bit more than that: she suggested deporting Israel's entire Jewish population to the US!

I think she suggested relocating Israel to the US, and shes not the first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slattery_Report

Not something I would see as a reasonable position, but I don't see how, in isolation it is anti semitic.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Yep, those touchy Jews with their persecution complex, eh? I mean she's only talking about rounding up Jews from their homes and forcibly transplanting them, you'd pretty much have to go out of your way to find that offensive or insensitive.

Christ on a bike, droid, does this honestly not strike you as a fundamentally pretty fucked-up thing for a politician to say?
 

luka

Well-known member
naturally the labour party contains anti semites. anti semitism is fairly widespread across all sections of british society, no reason why labour should be immune. the recent upsurge in reporting about it is surely to be viewed more as part of labours civil war than as tories vs labour though.
 

droid

Well-known member
Yep, those touchy Jews with their persecution complex, eh? I mean she's only talking about rounding up Jews from their homes and forcibly transplanting them, you'd pretty much have to go out of your way to find that offensive or insensitive.

Christ on a bike, droid, does this honestly not strike you as a fundamentally pretty fucked-up thing for a politician to say?

I can hear the kettle of indignation boiling there Tea, but before you go all in you might want to consider what she actually did - posted this picture on facebook:

naz-shah.png


And then consider what i said - that in isolation this is not anti-semitic - it is an attack on Israel and not Jews, and also echoes many pre '48 zionist proposals. Impolitic sure, but she did not call for 'the rounding up of jews' - that is your hyperbolic invention.
 

droid

Well-known member
Not that I have any horse in this race and its not a suggestion Id support btw, but it is ironic that every bullet point there is mostly true.
 
Last edited:

luka

Well-known member
i was winding up craner last night by saying moving Israel to the us was a perfectly reasonable idea. it was fun while it lasted.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
viewing this from afar and obviously not plugged in like you all, but from here this sounds oddly similar to when UKIP would have occasional MPs saying "outrageous" things and farage would repeatedly have to say "oh, this is just a random comment that doesn't represent an institutional problem with the party and they will be dealt with", etc.

is it different? not trolling, just a dumb yank asking.

Not trolling or dumb, this is a reasonable question. If anything, the difference is that Farage actually goes to the bother of rebuking his more vocally bigoted colleagues (how sincere the rebukes are is of course another matter) whereas when Corbyn is faced with accusations of being anti-Semitic by default on account of failing to castigate or discipline Labour MPs who've said things anti-Semitic things, he shrugs it off with a bland statement of "I'm not anti-Semitic" and the true believers are perfectly happy with that.
 

droid

Well-known member
i was winding up craner last night by saying moving Israel to the us was a perfectly reasonable idea. it was fun while it lasted.

In principle it is reasonable, validated by the fact that pre-Balfour, other options were seriously considered by Zionists. It is far less radical than the essentially mainstream Israeli (and US) opinion that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people and they should be happy in Jordan (No additional state etc.).

Obv in practise it is far less reasonable.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
naturally the labour party contains anti semites. anti semitism is fairly widespread across all sections of british society

It certainly seems to be more common among both the far Right - obviously - and the hard Left than among people closer to the political centre.

It's also unfortunately pretty common among Muslims. Cuts both ways, of course - many Jews have a big anti-Muslim prejudice too.
 
Last edited:

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
naturally the labour party contains anti semites. anti semitism is fairly widespread across all sections of british society, no reason why labour should be immune. the recent upsurge in reporting about it is surely to be viewed more as part of labours civil war than as tories vs labour though.

im not backing what she shared on facebook. you cant really go round making 'jokes' about things like that. esp if youre an MP. she sounds immature.

but if an MP shared something on facebook to the effect of 'ship muslims in england back to pakistan and save money!', i cant imagine it causing this kind of a furore. sad to say, there is one rule in british society for anti semitism, and another for islamaphobic commentary. and the only reasons these TWO year old facebook posts are resurfacing now are reasons that have nothing to do with anyone actually caring about anti semitism.
 

luka

Well-known member
of course rdr, you're absolutely right and if tea thinks anti semitism isn't rife in the conservative party he's kidding himself. all this is taking place becasue of a determined attemot by a faction of the labour party to unseat corbyn. as you say the facebook post predates corbyns leadership.
 

droid

Well-known member
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/sam-kriss-the-right-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

It really shouldn't have to be repeated at this point, but anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Israel is a foreign country, halfway across the world, with a long history of carrying out some extremely unpleasant acts on its three and a half million captive Palestinians. While it may claim to be Jewish, that does not mean it can then use an entire global Jewish diaspora as one vast human shield. The Jewish people have been around for much longer than Israel; most of us never asked for it, and many of us would like to have as little to do with it as possible. When opponents of Israel treat Jews in general and the government in Jerusalem as if they were the same thing, blaming one for the actions of the other, they are rightfully condemned. Why should it be any different when the same line's coming from people who claim to support us?
 
Top