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Thread: Jeremy Corbyn

  1. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    If "the youth" came out en masse for Corbyn how do we square that with the fact that young people overwhelmingly voted Remain?
    Young people may have mainly voted Labour but it's looking like the so-called 'youthquake' was largely a media invention:

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/.../#.WorDmK5l-Uk



    A modest, though statistically significant, increase in turnout since 2015 among voters aged between their late 20s and late 30s (still nothing like the turnout in this or any other election among the over-60s, mind), but little change among voters younger than that, and if anything a sight decrease in turnout among voters aged 22 and under.
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  2. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by sufi View Post
    so who did the Russians back in the UK GE, seems unlikely they would not have bothered?
    Given the choice between Tories and a Corbyn-led Labour, I can't see any reason they'd prefer the former.

    But Russian interest in UK politics is probably far more centred on Brexit than on which party happens to be in power when Brexit actually happens. Let's not forget the pivotal role played by a certain frog-faced fuck in both the Leave campaign and the Russia-WikiLeaks-Trump conspiracy: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nholy-alliance
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 19-02-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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  3. #993
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    A quote I vaguely recall from someone (Bill Browder maybe?) is that Putin et al have no ideology to advance and just work to disrupt and cause chaos. Corbyn seems to me the biggest challenge to the established way of doing things, so you'd maybe expect some backing there but I've encountered zero evidence for this so far. There's much more clustered around Aaron Banks, Farage and Brexit. Carole Calldwallar and Open Democracy are doing great work here but there's no appetite from either party to start questioning the legitimacy of the Brexit vote: https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/bre...nded-brexit-me

  4. #994
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    Doesnt Corbyn's public ambivalence on Brexit, and secret Lexiteering place him close to that camp?
    I dont think there's much appetite for thinking this through anywhere... a win for May was also in the interest of a chaotic Brexit, so a narrow loss for Jeremy was ideal really
    Whether delivered by Cambridge Analytica, Internet Research Agency or the shadowy online legions of Momentum, successful exploitation of democracy online smells different from genuine popular vote
    Last edited by sufi; 19-02-2018 at 04:47 PM.

  5. #995
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    dodgy - check the thread

  6. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by sufi View Post
    Doesnt Corbyn's public ambivalence on Brexit, and secret Lexiteering place him close to that camp?
    I dont think there's much appetite for thinking this through anywhere... a win for May was also in the interest of a chaotic Brexit, so a narrow loss for Jeremy was ideal really
    Whether delivered by Cambridge Analytica, Internet Research Agency or the shadowy online legions of Momentum, successful exploitation of democracy online smells different from genuine popular vote
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...rbyn-zffv8652xErm i think we heard it here first
    Last edited by sufi; 29-04-2018 at 03:17 PM.

  7. #997
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    Yeah, and last week the Times' front page was 'Jeremy Corbyn's hate factory' because some people said bad things in facebook groups he has no control over or input to.

    The fact is the British media is completely untrustworthy when it comes to Corbyn (who has been vocally in favour of swingeing attacks on Russian money in London, remember), especially a few days before local elections.

  8. #998
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    I do wonder whether the Windrush 'immigrants' scandal is doing the Tories as much harm as the anti-Semitism thing is doing to Labour - to the extent that these things can be quantified. I mean, it certainly should be.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 29-04-2018 at 08:59 PM.
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  9. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Yeah, and last week the Times' front page was 'Jeremy Corbyn's hate factory' because some people said bad things in facebook groups he has no control over or input to.

    The fact is the British media is completely untrustworthy when it comes to Corbyn (who has been vocally in favour of swingeing attacks on Russian money in London, remember), especially a few days before local elections.
    Yeah I've not read the piece actually, just spotted it in the shops and wanted to gloat my foresight

  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I do wonder whether the Windrush 'immigrants' scandal is doing the Tories as much harm as the anti-Semitism thing is doing to Labour - to the extent that these things can be quantified. I mean, it certainly should be.
    Are you seriously suggesting that a coordinated racist campaign to deport thousands of black British citizens under false pretences should be treated with the same seriousness as an ambiguous one line comment under a facebook post from 6 years ago?

  11. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by sufi View Post
    Yeah I've not read the piece actually, just spotted it in the shops and wanted to gloat my foresight
    Alignment with the Murdoch press is usually not a gloatable scenario!

  12. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that a coordinated racist campaign to deport thousands of black British citizens under false pretences should be treated with the same seriousness as an ambiguous one line comment under a facebook post from 6 years ago?
    And are you seriously suggesting one comment on Facebook is the extent of the "Labour anti-Semitism thing"?
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  13. #1003
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    I suspect it will do them more harm because it's simple, straightforward and completely believable in a way that the anti-semitism changes aren't. The Tories have always been fucking racist and everyone knows it. Labour as anti-semitic is a harder sell and I think a subtler process is at work i.e. it's a side-effect of a conspiratorial worldview. I thought this was a good piece on the latter: https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-it-sees-world

    The roots of such “personalised critiques” of capitalism can be traced back to vulgar understandings of Marx’s so-called “labour theory of value” – understandings which it was Postone’s life’s work to overturn. They do not necessarily have to lead to anti-semitism, but it does not take much for the search for those “rigging the system” to alight on the “rootless ‘cosmopolitan” Jew, forever holding the productive community to ransom though his control of the financial system.


    That article mentions Moise Postone's ideas taking hold in the German Left - would love to know what that looks like if anyone knows.

    I don't find the "Russian bots for Corbz" that worrying or convincing for a couple of reasons - the first being as Droid says, The Times absolutely has it in for him. Second, Bill Browder said that Putin/Russia has no strategy as such with these, it's just about the spread of chaos. I can imagine that backing any other candidate that'd upset the applecart as well as JC- it's not proof of any kind of Corbynite deep links. "Bots 4 Corbz" is almost to be expected, in this context. The third is because I'm absolutely aware of how personally popular he is, amongst so many people I know, in my age group and younger. We don't need the bots to explain this - and I think to a degree you look silly trying. There are genuine reasons for his popularity (though I do wonder to what degree it'll wane, the more people get to see of him).
    Last edited by DannyL; 29-04-2018 at 09:46 PM.

  14. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    And are you seriously suggesting one comment on Facebook is the extent of the "Labour anti-Semitism thing"?
    Exceptionally small sample size I admit but it really has not taken long for JC fans I've argued with online to start talking about the Rothchilds or George Soros. Maybe i've been unlucky.

    There was a post a week or two ago on the J4PM Facebook group telling people to cut it out with the conspiracy theories and memes - the reaction was interesting to say the least.

  15. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    Exceptionally small sample size I admit but it really has not taken long for JC fans I've argued with online to start talking about the Rothchilds or George Soros. Maybe i've been unlucky.

    There was a post a week or two ago on the J4PM Facebook group telling people to cut it out with the conspiracy theories and memes - the reaction was interesting to say the least.
    It's actually unbelievable. The typical response is to claim that it's all just a 'smear' and a 'conspiracy', by - who else? - The Jews, of course! (Although usually couched in terms of "Zionists", "Israel lobby" or what-have-you, of course.)
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