IdleRich

IdleRich
When they say 'won' isn't there some debate about what that means? Sanders won more votes but B won more districts which is what officially decides the winner. They are both gonna get the same number of delegates from Iowa anyhow.
 

droid

Well-known member
I would have written him off after his heart attack and the Warren surge, but as things currently stand, he's hugely popular, his main opposition is tanking and he's set to win the nomination.

A million things can happen between now and November. We'll just have to wait and see.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Who can blame them? They ratfucked him last time and they're trying to do it again.

it should be anyone but trump. if your candidate wins the nomination, great. if another candidate wins the nomination, fall into line and support them over trump. any other action is nothing more than selfish, privileged behavior by people who choose to stand on their purity because they aren't the ones most affected by trump's and the GOP's policies.

enough with the moral high ground, play to win.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I find it astonishing the way things are now that there are still people on the left who are saying they won't vote against Trump unless it's their candidate. Just completely fucking insane attitude.
 
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droid

Well-known member
You could make that argument today, but Im not sure why people who were sympathetic to Sanders in 2016, saw their candidate blatantly screwed by the DNC in an appalling process and were then asked to vote for a historically bad candidate who was pledging to continue the same policies that had (presumably) immiserated them in the first place would have voted for Clinton.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I think the Democrats should start thinking ahead to the 2024 election right now. They've dissipated all their energy and resources chasing the mirage of impeachment and basically made this one a write off.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I agree with what you're saying up to a point... but I think it was obvious (or ok, all but obvious) that Trump was going to be worse than Clinton (there were some people saying that he was just posturing and would settle into being a normal president - they were very wrong) and the voters were gonna have to live under his regime. It's classic cutting off your own nose business. But yeah, surely this time it's so clear cut... isn't it.... surely?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think the Democrats should start thinking ahead to the 2024 election right now. They've dissipated all their energy and resources chasing the mirage of impeachment and basically made this one a write off.
I don't think so. Schiff and Pelosi are not stupid, they knew that they could never remove Trump through impeachment with this senate, so far from having dissipated all their energy on it, it must have always been a part of their plan for it to be part of their 2020 anti-Trump election campaign. It may not work but I refuse to believe that they are dumb enough to have thought they could remove him and that they put all their efforts into that and are now sitting there dumbfounded going "What now, I really thought Trump would be gone so I have no ideas left". Let's face it, even if he HAD somehow been removed by some kind of miracle, he would have just been replaced by another Republican, who would need to be defeated in 2020 in the same way. No-one can have thought that impeachment somehow replaced the general election cos it just doesn't.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
it should be anyone but trump. if your candidate wins the nomination, great. if another candidate wins the nomination, fall into line and support them over trump. any other action is nothing more than selfish, privileged behavior by people who choose to stand on their purity because they aren't the ones most affected by trump's and the GOP's policies.

enough with the moral high ground, play to win.

I'd agree with the first three lines. But it's the Democrat machinery that doesn't know how to play to win; the decision to let Clinton win the nomination in 2016 was not winning behaviour. It was a losing, hyper-arrogant strategy by people who ultimately didn't care much about those who would be affected by Trump's policies.

Long-term - if a Clinton-esque candidate wins, then of course I'd agree in the short term it's better. In the long-term it'll be a disaster, because it's a continuation of exactly the problems that led to Trump's emergence in the first place.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I don't think so. Schiff and Pelosi are not stupid, they knew that they could never remove Trump through impeachment with this senate, so far from having dissipated all their energy on it, it must have always been a part of their plan for it to be part of their 2020 anti-Trump election campaign. It may not work but I refuse to believe that they are dumb enough to have thought they could remove him and that they put all their efforts into that and are now sitting there dumbfounded going "What now, I really thought Trump would be gone so I have no ideas left". Let's face it, even if he HAD somehow been removed by some kind of miracle, he would have just been replaced by another Republican, who would need to be defeated in 2020 in the same way. No-one can have thought that impeachment somehow replaced the general election cos it just doesn't.

Maybe, and I'm not saying they're stupid. But it seems to me that this has done more harm to the Democrats than it has to Trump. If it was a strategy, it seems misconceived.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Maybe, and I'm not saying they're stupid. But it seems to me that this has done more harm to the Democrats than it has to Trump. If it was a strategy, it seems misconceived.
I'm not arguing it was a good strategy. I think it was a gamble... if they could have won the witness vote and they'd been paraded in front of the country then that could have made a difference. I did read about people watching the trial having previously seen Fox (Fox didn't show the trial) and suddenly realising things were much worse and more clear cut than they had been led to believe. So I think they knew that the Parnas stuff was gonna come oit, Bolton too, and gambled on public pressure into scaring a couple of senators to vote.
Unrelatedly, or separate point anyhow, I do believe that if you catch the president betraying the country you have to do fucking something!
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Unrelatedly, or separate point anyhow, I do believe that if you catch the president betraying the country you have to do fucking something!

That is a good point :crylarf:
 
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