droid

Well-known member
Yeah, thats my take. Sanders tones down the (frankly ridiculous) 'socialist' self identification to appease centrists whilst still capitalising on his outsider status, and Trump's only trick (personal attacks) are nullified by the seeming lack of any dirt on Bernie.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It was said many times during the Dem leadership race that Sanders lacks widespread support among non-white voters, but that can hardly be more of a problem for him than for Trump, right? Even if many black and Hispanic voters preferred Clinton, I expect a great majority of them would have seen Sanders as infinitely preferable to a Trump presidency.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Yeah, thats my take. Sanders tones down the (frankly ridiculous) 'socialist' self identification to appease centrists whilst still capitalising on his outsider status, and Trump's only trick (personal attacks) are nullified by the seeming lack of any dirt on Bernie.

the problem is i doubt bernie would have been able to get away with toning down his socialist past, the fox news/alt-right media would have given him the full '"red ken" treatment. he'd have been depicted as the scary rebirth of karl marx, here to undermine our great country's freedom and values!
 

Leo

Well-known member
true, but yes, perception is reality.

also, that very same article begins with:

BARACK OBAMA spent his first campaign for president explaining why he was no socialist. Bernie Sanders, the out-of-nowhere candidate who has constituted an unexpected challenge to Hillary Clinton, bravely embraces the label.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Well, sure, but they're the same people having mock trials of Hillary now, and (as an aside), Sanders doesnt have a 'socialist' past, he's a mainstream social democrat (yes I know perception is key, but that myth needs to be put to bed http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/02/bernie-manifesto).

Bernie Sanders wouldn't stand a chance to actually get majorities I am afraid, not in the 30 odd years of Thatcherist/Reagenite climate of mainstream politics which has been held the (Western) wirld hostage for over 30 years now. He (similar to Corbyn) would be perceived as a social democrat in the 1960s and 1970s. But the (right wing) consensus machine (mainstream media, corporate media, pressure groups etc) have shifted the political coordinate system so far to the right, that such people are now being referred to as SOCIALISTS meaning little Lenins.

Sanders was important however bc he broke that very Thacherite consensus and brought lots of it into the mainstream.
 
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droid

Well-known member
true, but yes, perception is reality.

also, that very same article begins with:

Oh, I know, that was my initial point, and, in fact, the only evidence of his alleged socialism.

This Jeffrey Epstein peadophile rape case against Trump.. trial set for December. Would be amazing if he won the election and was then found guilty.
 

Leo

Well-known member
i know "polls don't matter/aren't to be believed", etc., but...

Trump looks into the polling abyss

Donald Trump trailed Hillary Clinton on average by about 5 points prior to the leaked video of his sexually aggressive comments. Now, according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll out on Monday, he trails by 14.

It might not matter either way: No candidate in the modern era of polling has ever climbed back from more than 4 points behind over the final month of the campaign to win the presidency.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-polling-clinton-229576

if he was the best candidate in history with the best campaign in history, then i'd give him the benefit of the doubt. but realistically, he's not and he doesn't.
 

droid

Well-known member
Trevor Noah making the distinction between 'locker room talk' and 'sexual assault talk' on the daily show tonight, apparently.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Trevor Noah making the distinction between 'locker room talk' and 'sexual assault talk' on the daily show tonight, apparently.

it was a pretty good segment. even better was samantha bee's entire "full frontal" last night (episode 26), brutal. not sure if it's available outside the US: http://samanthabee.com
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Donald Trump trailed Hillary Clinton on average by about 5 points prior to the leaked video of his sexually aggressive comments. Now, according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll out on Monday, he trails by 14.

It might not matter either way: No candidate in the modern era of polling has ever climbed back from more than 4 points behind over the final month of the campaign to win the presidency.

No candidate in history has ever worn a wig made from a water buffalo's pubes and an endangered monkey shot by a Colombian coke cartel, either.
 

vimothy

yurp
Someone once told me that the key to succeeding at fantasy football league is not to overreact to the latest results. The same applies here, I think. Not so long ago, Trump was attacking the family of a dead soldier and people thought he was ruined. Later, Clinton's IT troubles and strange fainting episodes began to dominate the news and many of the same people thought he would win. Today he again has no chance, but there is still time between now and the election for more shocking, balance-tipping events to occur and change the perceptions of the voters and the media.
 

Leo

Well-known member
that's what everybody says. the difference (and big challenge) now is time is not on his side. would be different if it was still 2-3 months out, but at this point there are fewer undecided voters for him to sway each week, and he only has three weeks left (and early voting has started...the ny times says she might even be able to clinch before election day).

yes, he has bounced back before, but most voters here don't start really paying attention to the race until after labor day (early september), and he's been losing ground pretty much every week since then.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Those who have decided to vote Trump, publicly or privately, will not be deterred by anything that has come out so far, and the media and international reaction will only confirm their decision. That's the impression I'm getting.
 

vimothy

yurp
But there might still be some swing voters who have yet to make up their minds. Or do you think the election is already decided?
 

vimothy

yurp
One possibility is that these controversies are largely occurring in the minds of journalists and other politics-obsessives. They've decided that the debates and video have destroyed Trump's chances and are busy seeking out any evidence that confirms it, but most people simply aren't moved one way or the other.
 
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