Leo

Well-known member
by all rights, clinton should crush him but: a) he's such a wildcard, will say anything, nothing off the table, b) it will be an incredibly dirty campaign, c) she is often a bad campaigner, d) she's of course also vulnerable regarding the emails/server and various past clinton scandals and e) an october surprise terrorist attack in the states could scare voters into his corner.

in other words, i'm somewhat confident she'll beat him (and democrats might even be able to take back the senate), but i wish i felt more confident. i wish hillary was a better candidate, or a different person (and no, it's out of bernie's reach).
 

droid

Well-known member
Yeah, its shame, I think Sanders would stand a better chance against Trump. He'd offer a clear alternative, have the weight of the party behind him, plus the added support of the new constituencies he's tapped into.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Yeah, its shame, I think Sanders would stand a better chance against Trump. He'd offer a clear alternative, have the weight of the party behind him, plus the added support of the new constituencies he's tapped into.

true, but part of me still thinks it would be very difficult for middle america to vote for a 70-year old socialist jew as president. nothing against older people, socialists or jews, you understand, but the GOP would have a field day against him and many (many!) americans outside the east and west coasts aren't very open minded. bernie's popularity with new/younger voters is a plus but not sure it would outweigh GOP plus skittish independent voters.
 

trza

Well-known member
Sanders and his "electability" argument are one of the biggest scams of this election. His ideas are divisive, unpopular, misguided or just wrong for the general election. He is not a likable person, his private life has plenty of scandals or stuff that can be taken out of context. He never faced a single attack ad, Hillary never wanted to anger his supporters.

The big right wing super-PACS were actually working on Hillary memes and ads tailored to make her unpopular with his supporters. The attacks against him would start with his self identification as a socialist, his huge spending plans, higher taxes, anti-business policies. The facebook memes would have his face right next to giant macro graphics of "90% Tax Rate" or "$30 Trillion in new Debt", and don't even ask how Trump would make everyone know about his vague promise to release a million prisoners.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Sanders and his "electability" argument are one of the biggest scams of this election. His ideas are divisive, unpopular, misguided or just wrong for the general election. He is not a likable person, his private life has plenty of scandals or stuff that can be taken out of context. He never faced a single attack ad, Hillary never wanted to anger his supporters.

The big right wing super-PACS were actually working on Hillary memes and ads tailored to make her unpopular with his supporters. The attacks against him would start with his self identification as a socialist, his huge spending plans, higher taxes, anti-business policies. The facebook memes would have his face right next to giant macro graphics of "90% Tax Rate" or "$30 Trillion in new Debt", and don't even ask how Trump would make everyone know about his vague promise to release a million prisoners.

ha! yeah, i stopped trying to explain that sort of thing to most of my brooklyn hipster/champagne socialist friends for the past year, wasn't worth the effort. funny thing: they all view trump supporters/tea partiers/fox news viewers as closed-minded and unreasonable, when in fact many sanders supporters are the same way on the other end of the spectrum. it's great to be passionate, but it helps to be a little realistic too.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Looking at the Sanders/Clinton race (edit: 'contest' might be a better word here!) from outside the US, the point I've read over and over again is the importance of race in this question. Specifically, very few black and Hispanic voters have voted for Sanders, and even writers who in principle support the guy are admitting that this is in part his fault, as he could seriously have undermined Clinton by pointing out the disastrous effects her husband's deregulation of Wall Street had on low-income Americans (who are disproportionately black and Hispanic, it hardly need be said) and by making much more noise about his own substantial history of anti-racist activism.

Going back to Trump, is it possible that his endless fulminations against those dastardly wetbacks could be his undoing? I mean, as popular as the rhetoric is with many white Americans, it's hardly going to endear him to Hispanic voters, is it?
 
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Leo

Well-known member
Going back to Trump, is it possible that his endless fulminations against those dastardly wetbacks could be his undoing? I mean, as popular as the rhetoric is with many white Americans, it's hardly going to endear him to Hispanic voters, is it?

that's the thing, trump's favorability ratings with hispanics is in the mid-20s, and not much higher with women. combine those two demographics and the numbers just don't work for winning a national election, there just aren't enough angry white males to outweigh them.

keep in mind that although trump might have been getting 50-60% of the vote in these recent elections, those were GOP primaries where (largely) only the hardest of the hardcore base turn out to vote. he definitely expanded turnout in some states and the diehards will stick with him, but it will be a different story when moderate republicans, independents and democrats are voting in the national election too.
 

droid

Well-known member
He is not a likable person.

Just to ignore the polemics - yknow Sanders is the only one of the three remaining candidates to actually have a favourable rating in polls? The other two are in the negatives.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Going back to Trump, is it possible that his endless fulminations against those dastardly wetbacks could be his undoing? I mean, as popular as the rhetoric is with many white Americans, it's hardly going to endear him to Hispanic voters, is it?

My take on this would be that Trump never thought he had a chance in hell of becoming President, although that might have changed now (shudder). I reckon, despite his egotism, he might have even surprised himself in succeeding so spectacularly: hence not giving a fuck about alienating large parts of the electorate.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Is Trump sabotaging his own campaign?
The Morning Joe panel discusses Donald Trump's campaign and if the leading GOP candidate actually wants to be president.


don't have to watch the whole thing, the first few minutes are enough.

interesting perspective: deep down inside, he's actually scared of being president.

in light of how he's been behaving and trashing GOP leaders, he could just be the typical egomaniac CEO who is convinced everything he does is right...or he could (consciously or unconsciously) be shooting himself in the foot. he's smart enough to know he needs to "pivot" and not be such a firebrand now that the primaries are done, but he's still chugging along making fun of romney, NM governor martinez (who is EXACTLY the type of successful/female/hispanic GOP supporter and possibly even running mate he needs to win general election). why attack her, of all people?

it might be crazy talk, but so much doesn't add up that it just might be true.
 

trza

Well-known member
Trump fired one of his campaign workers after a dispute between his aides. But the guys name is Wiley and my twitter feed is filled with news and music and politics so it shows up like TRUMP FIRES WILEY.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Is there a good summary somewhere of why so many people seem to loathe Hilary?

I don't need to be told why they loathe Trump.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Is there a good summary somewhere of why so many people seem to loathe Hilary?

opponents (both GOP and bernie supporters) depict her and the clintons in general as the symbol of crony capitalism. from bill's time in the white house to the clinton foundation, they are seen as selling access and power to the highest bidders regardless of how unsavory.

she gets tarred with all that was wrong with bill's presidency ("disgracing the office" with lewinsky, impeachment, etc.)

they see her as hypocritical in claiming to uphold democratic values while also cozying up to wall street (collecting $500k from goldman sachs for a 20-minute speech, etc.)

they say she's untrustworthy and plays by a different sent of rules (see: private email and server).

in fairness, the large majority of politicians help those who help them, suck up to big money donors and say/do whatever is politically expedient. i think the notion is the clintons take it all to the next level, elevating it to an art form.

i voted for her.
 

trza

Well-known member
Donald Trump just had the worst five days of his campaign, just an awful social media replay of himself doubling down and tripling down on the same self inflicted wound that he brought up for no good reason. The political press claims Ivanka and Chris Christie and two other close aides wrote his speech last night but that was five days of sticking every Republican in a trap where they need to sound like they disagree with him but can't insult his followers.
 

Leo

Well-known member
I thought it was because she's a ruthless, sociopathic war criminal.

that's a bit hyperbolic, but i get your point. it's certainly an issue, but for this election, american voters don't seem to care as much about it. this time around, it's more about domestic issues: jobs/economy, stagnant/declining wages, loss of the middle class, wealth disparity (followed to a slightly lesser degree by immigration, domestic terrorist threat, supreme court justices, etc.).

not saying that's right, just saying how it is.
 
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