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Thread: Trump

  1. #1021
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    He's now watching episodes of Northern Exposure and fantasising about himself in the Fleischman role with Palin as Maggie.

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  3. #1022

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    Quite an interesting State, Alaska.

  4. #1023
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    Do I sense a song coming? Please tell me there's going to be a song.

  5. #1024

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    There are more than 3,000 rivers and 3 million lakes in Alaska.

  6. #1025

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    Not read the whole essay, but this is to the point:

    [A] common point between academic and media analysis is the tendency to “unmask” an ideological opponent. To unmask is to reveal a delusion beneath a political or intellectual claim. To unmask is to presuppose that there is no principled basis for debate. There is nothing to understand besides the error of the other. The presence of difference of opinion attests only to the existence of false-consciousness, not to the existence of a question that admits more than one answer.

  7. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    Not read the whole essay, but this is to the point:
    But it ignores the fact that many people - increasingly many people, including some very powerful and influential people, right up to Trump himself - base their opinions on 'facts' that are at best grossly distorted, if not plucked out of thin air. The 'Bowling Green massacre' is not an opinion to be debated: it's an imaginary event.
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  8. #1027
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    it has come to the point where senators can actually say this, out loud. it doesn't even merit much attention anymore, just not outrageous enough to register.

    The Republican Party has largely decided to cover for Donald Trump’s massive corruption, grotesque lies, and manifest unfitness for office. But few of them have gone quite so far, or quite so cravenly, as Rand Paul. The junior senator from Kentucky, and onetime hope of the extremely short-lived “libertarian moment” in American politics, has not only attached himself to Trump, but is actively snuffing out whatever faint stirrings of opposition his colleagues can muster.

    While the GOP Congress has ignored the president’s self-enrichment, refusal to disclose his tax returns, and clear violations of the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause, some have expressed willingness to investigate his opaque ties to Russia. Paul is not one of them. And not only does he see no need for investigation on Russia, Paul has staked out a stance against any investigations, period, on the brutally frank grounds that it would impair the party’s legislative agenda. “I just don’t think it’s useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party,” he told “Kilmeade and Friends.” “We’ll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we’re spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans.”

    Many Republicans have made piecemeal excuses not to exercise the oversight function. Only Paul has elevated the practice of looking away from the crimes of the Executive branch to an actual principle of governance.

  9. #1028

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    But it ignores the fact that many people - increasingly many people, including some very powerful and influential people, right up to Trump himself - base their opinions on 'facts' that are at best grossly distorted, if not plucked out of thin air. The 'Bowling Green massacre' is not an opinion to be debated: it's an imaginary event.
    Maybe so, although people across the political divide probably ground their beliefs in misunderstandings and even outright falsehoods. We are not exactly objective creatures. In any case, you have to decide whether you can enter into negotiation and compromise with those of us whose views you dislike. If you can't compromise, the intensification of conflict and deterioration of political institutions is inevitable.

  10. #1029
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    Would you willingly 'compromise' on a point of fact with someone you knew to be telling outright lies?
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  11. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Would you willingly 'compromise' on a point of fact with someone you knew to be telling outright lies?
    Lie = willingly say untrue things.

    I rather have the impression a lot of people absolutley believe what they say - no matter if it's factual or not. for them it IS factual (just look at the conspiracy theories going wild these days). - which further complicates things.
    Last edited by firefinga; 22-02-2017 at 06:39 PM.

  12. #1031
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    http://sonsofmalcolm.blogspot.co.uk/...trump.html?m=1

    So proud of Iran, North Korea and China! While people in the usa and Britain march against trump but have no real impact and are unlikely to going forward as the only leadership are left of the colonial system (democrats, soros, labour and lib dems and greens), these Asian nations showed what real strategic resistance against growing fascist imperialism of trump looks like. Iran blasted a missile as a fuck you, and then the Supreme Leader initiated massive protests against Trump, then China rolled hard against trump saying China is ready for war if trump wants to aggress her, and North Korea fires a missile into the sea towards Japan just as trump sits down for a meal with Japanese president!

  13. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    Lie = willingly say untrue things.

    I rather have the impression a lot of people absolutley believe what they say - no matter if it's factual or not. for them it IS factual (just look at the conspiracy theories going wild these days). - which further complicates things.
    wtf? so, now something is "factual" simply because one "absolutely believe(s)" it?

  14. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    Lie = willingly say untrue things.

    I rather have the impression a lot of people absolutley believe what they say - no matter if it's factual or not. for them it IS factual (just look at the conspiracy theories going wild these days). - which further complicates things.
    You're letting them off the hook far too easily. Take the 'Bowling Green massacre'. The possible explanations for Conway's referring to this 'event' are: 1) she knowingly fabricated it herself; 2) someone else fabricated it and fed it to her, and she unwittingly reproduced it without checking its factuality first; or 3) she 'got confused', and unwittingly fabricated something she believed to be true - or she dreamt it, hallucinated it, received it in a vision, whatever. So she is at least one out of: grossly dishonest, grossly gullible and unprofessional, incredibly feeble-minded and/or insane. Any one of those, by itself, ought to disqualify her from a responsible public position - or, if you think about it, any job more complex than digging ditches.

    It's the same with Trump's "Swedish terrorist atrocity" - it's still terrible, in different ways, whether he straight-up lied or confused Sweden with a town in Pakistan that has some of the same letters in its name. And then he definitely lied by claiming he was talking about ongoing cultural strife.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 05-01-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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  15. #1034

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Would you willingly 'compromise' on a point of fact with someone you knew to be telling outright lies?
    This is the problem facing both sides. (At any rate, both sides think this is the problem they're facing, which is effectively the same thing.)

  16. #1035
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    Here is the transcript of Trump's "terrorist attack" in Sweden comment:

    Here’s the bottom line. We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening. We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers [of refugees from Muslim-majority countries]. They’re having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what’s happening in Brussels. You look at what’s happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris. We’ve allowed thousands and thousands of people into our country and there was no way to vet those people. There was no documentation. There was no nothing. So we’re going to keep our country safe.
    I watched the video too. You notice that he doesn't actually say there was a terrorist attack, only -

    you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden
    What it now appears he meant by this was:

    you look at [the TV segment I was watching last night about the situation] in Sweden
    Okay, sort of dumb. But still - it was widely reported that Trump cited a non-existent terrorist attack and indeed you straight-up cite it again here - I'm sure in good faith - as an example of Trump lying.

    It's the same with Trump's "Swedish terrorist atrocity" - it's still terrible, in different ways, whether he straight-up lied or confused Sweden with a town in Pakistan that has some of the same letters in its name. And then he definitely lied by claiming he was talking about ongoing cultural strife.
    But he didn't actually say this. You see the problem?
    Last edited by josef k.; 22-02-2017 at 07:54 PM.

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