luka

Well-known member
I just administered a severe setback to trumps agenda by standing on the street with some other people for a bit. People Power
 

luka

Well-known member
Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged.
 

Leo

Well-known member
The Immigration Ban is a Headfake, and We’re Falling For It

When I read about the incredibly active first week of the Trump administration, I struggle with two competing narratives about what’s really going on. The first story is simple: the administration is just doing what it said it would do, literally keeping its campaign promises. Lots of people won’t agree, but it’s playing to its base. They’re also not really good at this whole government thing yet, so implementation is shaky. The second is more sinister: the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

A legitimate argument can be made for the former: a relatively extreme and inexperienced administration was just put in place, and they haven’t yet figured out the nuances of government. But a few of the events in the past 72 hours —the intentional inclusion of green card holders in the immigration order, the DHS defiance of a federal judge, and the timing of Trump’s shakeup of the National Security Council — have pointed to a larger story. Even worse, if that larger story is true, if the source of this week’s actions is a play to consolidate power, it’s going really well so far. And that’s because mostly everyone — including those in protests shutting down airports over the weekend— are playing right into the administration’s hand.

[in the minds of the administration]When the dust settles, we have 100% of the Executive Order we originally wanted, we’ve tested the loyalty of a department we’ll need later on, we’ve proven we can ignore an entire branch of government, and we’ve slipped in some subtle moves that will make the next test even easier.

We’ve just tested the country’s willingness to capitulate to a fascist regime.

 

droid

Well-known member
Im deeply skeptical of the mastermind theories. There is a plan no doubt, but I don't think its particularly sophisticated or well executed.

One of the greatest tragedies in all this is that people seem to think David Frum is now someone you should listen to rather than someone who's smug war mongering face should be shat on forever.
 

Leo

Well-known member
trump has succeeded so far -- in the primaries and general election -- by running what most view as a dumpster fire operation, but i wonder if he and his henchmen are crazy like a fox. by normal standards, they are a shitshow, but they don't seem to be playing by the normal rules. they don't care if things are finely tuned and smoothly implemented...in fact, generating a certain degree of chaos appears to be their means of keeping opposition off balance and them coming out ahead.

i know what you're saying, droid, but i'm starting to think we might not be able view the administration through the traditional prism of how things work and goals are achieved.
 

droid

Well-known member
lol, very good.

But lets be clear, Frum is scum. If he opposes Trump, thats fine, Ill go with that, doesnt mean he has credibility.
 

droid

Well-known member
He is, after all, partly responsible for all of this. Cheney is critical of Trump is well, doesnt mean hes suddenly not an evil fuck.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Im deeply skeptical of the mastermind theories. There is a plan no doubt, but I don't think its particularly sophisticated or well executed.

One of the greatest tragedies in all this is that people seem to think David Frum is now someone you should listen to rather than someone who's smug war mongering face should be shat on forever.

Me neither. Trump is - astonishingly I might add - working his campaign promises point by point. In that respect, he is the most "honest" politician I have ever witnessed. David Frum is just pissed off, bc he isn't part of the "inner circle" this time.

However, Bannon is the one to watch.
 
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Leo

Well-known member
this is a new ballgame, could be a mistake to judge this administration by traditional means. they don't care about looking like a well-oiled machine, thoughtful and precise.
 

droid

Well-known member
this is a new ballgame, could be a mistake to judge this administration by traditional means. they don't care about looking like a well-oiled machine, thoughtful and precise.

I agree. What I disagree with is the idea that they are ultra-sophisticated multi-dimensional strategists. They are simply using raw power to push through reactionary policies, I don't think there's a great distraction game or sleight of hand going on.
 

droid

Well-known member
http://www.huckmagazine.com/perspectives/opinion-perspectives/ignore-trumpologists/

These theories can sometimes be entertaining or terrifying (and parts of them might even be true), but most often they rely on a way of thinking about politics which is mystifying and disempowering. The first part of this way of thinking is to assume whatever happens at the surface level of politics is somehow a misdirection away from the ‘real’ story; the second is that the secret motive can be discerned by an insider’s knowledge of (or speculation about) the personalities inside the Trump Whitehouse; the third is that your instinctive responses to these policies will be wrong, and play right into the hands of these fiendish (and fiendishly clever) game-players.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member

the “resistance” is playing right into Trump’s playbook. The most vocal politicians could be seen at rallies, close to the headlines. The protests themselves did exactly what they were intended to: dominate the news cycle and channel opposition anger towards a relatively insignificant piece of the puzzle. I’m not saying that green card holders should be stuck in airports — far from it. I’m saying there might be a much larger picture here, and the immigration ban is a distraction.
 
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