Breitbart

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
If you are a Christian living in the Middle East is it permissible to fear Islam?

My uncle's missus is a jordanian christian. She's lived in the uk for decades and is deeply islamaphobic. It's understandable, she shouldn't be punished for it, but that's not to say her assesment of islam is accurate.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
But Corpsey didn't say that. He said Islamophobes constantly bring up paedophilia wrt Islam. Which any skim through YouTube comments will verify.

Because many people make an equation in their heads that goes 'criticism of any aspect of Islam/the Quran = deep-seated problem with Islam as a whole = hatred of all Muslims = racism'. I don't think for one second that Corpsey thinks that, but it's such a common fallacy that I think it's worth flagging up.
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
But in as far as it's rational, what do you think? What are you afraid of in that scenario? Islam as giant non representational blob, or mob violence, official state discrimination, popular demagogues, etc etc

Personally I don't fear Islam - I don't want to live my life in fear.

But I can see that fear of Islam is now very widespread. Breitbart is really all about that. Not only Breitbart but the new European Right (of course they are entangled) is anchored in a growing fear of Islam.

The Left employs the term "Islamophobia" similarly to how it uses "racism", as if it negated those politics, and those feelings, but that is not the case. In fact, it only silences discussion - that is, removes the Left from meaningful discussion, which nonetheless continues outside of Leftist earshot, only to surprise them later.

People outside of the liberal circles I imagine most of us usually inhabit are happy to admit to Islamophobia, racism, in more or less sophisticated terms.

What do people fear? Breitbart provides a pretty comprehensive picture: Demographic change, cultural change, sexual violence, terroristic violence, Shariah Law... many of these fears are not well-grounded, and others aren't connected to Islam directly.

What I do think is true, though, is that there's been an effective suppression of free speech - and therefore both a disregarding of people's fears/concerns, and a removal of the social/democratic ability to manage them - under the sign of Islamophobia.
 

droid

Well-known member
What I do think is true, though, is that there's been an effective suppression of free speech - and therefore both a disregarding of people's fears/concerns, and a removal of the social/democratic ability to manage them - under the sign of Islamophobia.

Youre right. Suppression of free speech and failure to address concerns about Islam is a major problem.

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luka

Well-known member
Over the years some people have noticed humans have an unfortunate and largely anachronistic tendency to form tribal groups and to designate other tribal groups as The Enemy. Whether these groups identify on grounds of nationality, religion, ethnicity or something else entirely is immaterial. The danger lies in the psychological mechanism itself.

The problem being it inevitably leads to death, destruction and suffering, sometimes on a small scale, like the recent mob violence directed against Zimbabweans in South Africa, or on a large scale, such as the wars in the Balkans in the 1990s, or on an unprecedented and world changing scale, as happened under Hitler.

A lot of energy has gone into short-circuiting this mechanism since the end of the second world war. Because it seems to be innate, constant vigilance is required to prevent it from being triggered. Now you may think this is all in vain, and that Man shouldn’t set himself against Nature, but I disagree. Whatever the shortcomings of Liberal Humanism, I think that in this regard it is Noble and Necessary.

When ‘leftists’ squawk and flap and denounce Trump, for example, as Hitler, or as a Fascist, this may seem hysterical but ultimately it is a response to seeing someone reaching for the big red Tribal Passions button. We know what happens when that button gets pressed. It’s not pretty.
There’s lots of issues around this subject to talk about and squabble over, and I'd enjoy doing that, but there’s also something non-negotiable at its heart.
 

luka

Well-known member
good post droid. let's not drift too far from the shores of reality. Looking at that collection of headlines the propaganda seems so crude as to be comedic and yet you can hardly argue its been ineffectual.
 

droid

Well-known member
That post could probably have been longer than every single thread on this forum. There is an inexhaustible supply of examples of criticism of Islam from the West, its virtually pathological - so much so that I cant believe I even need to make this claim.
 

droid

Well-known member
But once again we see the fantasy world of the right where racism, Islamophobia & fear of the other are all normal concerns for everyday people, and therefore the real victims are those whose free speech is being suppressed by liberal censorship of these legitimate impulses.

An almost total inversion of reality, demolished instantly by even a glance at objective, verifiable evidence, and yet the idea persists.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
That post could probably have been longer than every single thread on this forum. There is an inexhaustible supply of examples of criticism of Islam from the West, its virtually pathological - so much so that I cant believe I even need to make this claim.

Well if I wasted my breath needlessly telling Corpsey that it isn't inherently racist to criticize the Quran, I like to think you're not telling anyone anything new by pointing out that the right-wing press has a tendency to demonize Muslims.

I say like to think - I guess firefinga is the person here with views closest to some of those expressed in those headlines, though I'm sure he'd accept that at least some of them are grossly inflated or gratuitously inflammatory.
 

droid

Well-known member
Well if I wasted my breath needlessly telling Corpsey that it isn't inherently racist to criticize the Quran, I like to think you're not telling anyone anything new by pointing out that the right-wing press has a tendency to demonize Muslims.

Well, its not just the RW, its also governments, the centre, large swathes of liberalism... but sure, it shouldn't need to be said - hence my surprise at Josef's post.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
I say like to think - I guess firefinga is the person here with views closest to some of those expressed in those headlines, though I'm sure he'd accept that at least some of them are grossly inflated or gratuitously inflammatory.

Hu? These are just headlines - the contents of the articles (which I haven't read) may or may not be accurate.

So in Austria there have been repeated cases of people joining the Islamic state. These made the headlines. Is it "islamophobic" that this makes the headlines? Hardly. And yeah, not exactly a big fan of leftists islamophilia.
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
Well, its not just the RW, its also governments, the centre, large swathes of liberalism... but sure, it shouldn't need to be said - hence my surprise at Josef's post.

Those headlines are... Islamophobic, would you say?

My point relates to the reality of people's fears - and the Leftist reaction to these fears (= racist and irrational).

In the absence of discussion, what you get is propaganda.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What does and doesn't count as "Islamophobia" could fill a thread by itself, or even a book, or many books, and still not be answered. Take that Times headline about more British Muslims joining ISIS than the army. It is, presumably, a factually correct statement, but without any context or figures, it's potentially inflammatory and misleading. I mean, it says as much about how few UK Muslims are joining the army than it does about how many are joining ISIS, and given recent history, is it really surprising that they're not thronging in their thousands to join the armed forces? By itself, it could easily give the impression that British Muslims as a whole are supportive of ISIS.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
funny, prominent transgender activist (and speaker at the Women's march) Janet Mock expressed more or less the same sentiments as Milo a couple of years ago and no one said anything.

Citation needed.

And not via posts from Gallus Mag or some such.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
"Gallus mag or some such" meaning anyone who's transgender critical i suppose. Anyway its on her own website

Mock also seems fond of referring to females as 'fish' right?
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think you two should politely agree to disagree. No good at all is going to come of getting into this again. (Yeah yeah, says me...all the same.)
 

luka

Well-known member
It's pretty funny how subvert appears like candyman every time benny says transgender three times though
 

droid

Well-known member
Yeah, funny how the only trans poster on Dissensus responds to someone who consistently criticises trans politics.
 
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