The Dissensus Jungle Poll Is Now Open
- Thread starter sadmanbarty
- Start date
luka
Well-known member
reminds me of this great interview.
http://www.theransomnote.co.uk/music/gone-rave/gone-to-a-rave-51-paul-ibiza-gets-real/
When you say ‘it’s not yours’ who are you addressing that to?
Well going back to what we said earlier about the racial tension, when I came into this rave culture scene there were white DJs and there were black DJs, and a lot of the white DJs found jungle a threat. The early drum n bass got shut down. The jungle became an inner city black culture, it was strong and vibrant and it sort of slowed down the white DJs thing. People were moaning, they were complaining about it. A lot of the white DJs were saying, ‘ahh it’s too moody, it’s too dark, I don’t like it’, but it grew so big. After ’94 the drum n bass boys fought back.
At the time there was a lot of controversy around the name drum n bass– when people started using the term drum n bass there was a feeling in some corners that this was to hide the scene’s black roots
Well, I’m glad you said that. The name drum n bass is of black origin anyway, it said on my dad’s old records “drum n bass or version” – but what we think of as drum & bass now, I hate drum & bass. It’s moody. OK, Im not gonna say I don’t like it, but… Take Rob Playford. Rob Playford used to work for me in the early Ibiza days. He was a DJ. He used to come to my house with his long straggly hair, sat down in my house and said, I want to be a DJ, so I said, come on then. Colour had stopped mattering to me by this point, so I said come on then, and I took Rob Playford under my wing. So he then started doing his own label, all the Moving Shadow stuff, calling his rave Voodoo Rave. And I said, hold on Rob, I didn’t think you liked the black culture, why are you calling you’re rave Voodoo Rave, all of that. And the minute he started making money he came out with this thing called Intelligent Drum n Bass, and I started seeing what was going on here. The scene was splitting- jungle is black and drum n bass is white, is that what you’re telling me? And that’s what was happening. It started with Moving Shadow with a record called Snow.
http://www.theransomnote.co.uk/music/gone-rave/gone-to-a-rave-51-paul-ibiza-gets-real/
When you say ‘it’s not yours’ who are you addressing that to?
Well going back to what we said earlier about the racial tension, when I came into this rave culture scene there were white DJs and there were black DJs, and a lot of the white DJs found jungle a threat. The early drum n bass got shut down. The jungle became an inner city black culture, it was strong and vibrant and it sort of slowed down the white DJs thing. People were moaning, they were complaining about it. A lot of the white DJs were saying, ‘ahh it’s too moody, it’s too dark, I don’t like it’, but it grew so big. After ’94 the drum n bass boys fought back.
At the time there was a lot of controversy around the name drum n bass– when people started using the term drum n bass there was a feeling in some corners that this was to hide the scene’s black roots
Well, I’m glad you said that. The name drum n bass is of black origin anyway, it said on my dad’s old records “drum n bass or version” – but what we think of as drum & bass now, I hate drum & bass. It’s moody. OK, Im not gonna say I don’t like it, but… Take Rob Playford. Rob Playford used to work for me in the early Ibiza days. He was a DJ. He used to come to my house with his long straggly hair, sat down in my house and said, I want to be a DJ, so I said, come on then. Colour had stopped mattering to me by this point, so I said come on then, and I took Rob Playford under my wing. So he then started doing his own label, all the Moving Shadow stuff, calling his rave Voodoo Rave. And I said, hold on Rob, I didn’t think you liked the black culture, why are you calling you’re rave Voodoo Rave, all of that. And the minute he started making money he came out with this thing called Intelligent Drum n Bass, and I started seeing what was going on here. The scene was splitting- jungle is black and drum n bass is white, is that what you’re telling me? And that’s what was happening. It started with Moving Shadow with a record called Snow.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
These factors differentiate hardcore from jungle (I'm sure there are others as well):
Tempo- Jungle's at 160 + whereas hardcore is slower.
Jungle tends to deviate from snare emphasis on the 2 and 4.
Hardcore uses staccato riffs
Hardcore tends to loop a break in whole bar loops. Jungle chops those breaks up, uses multiple breaks, pitchshift etc.
Not so much chipmunk vocals, mentasm or italo-piano in jungle
Luke, the last 3 proto-jungle tunes you posted all deviate from the standard 2 and 4 snare emphasis.
Tempo- Jungle's at 160 + whereas hardcore is slower.
Jungle tends to deviate from snare emphasis on the 2 and 4.
Hardcore uses staccato riffs
Hardcore tends to loop a break in whole bar loops. Jungle chops those breaks up, uses multiple breaks, pitchshift etc.
Not so much chipmunk vocals, mentasm or italo-piano in jungle
Luke, the last 3 proto-jungle tunes you posted all deviate from the standard 2 and 4 snare emphasis.
firefinga
Well-known member
March 1993
Here's my list for March 1993:
A Guy Called Gerald - 28 Gun Bad Boy
Cloud 9 - You Got Me Burning
DJ RedAlert and Mike Slammer - In Effect
Enforcers 2
Johnny Jungle - Johnny
Lewi Cifer - Heat
Manix - Heading To The Light-EP
Primary Source - The Och
Q-Project - Champion Sound
Scott and Keith - Deranged
Straight From The Bedroom Pt 1 - The Box Opened
Tango and Ratty - The Final Conflict/Tales From The Darkside
Here's my list for March 1993:
A Guy Called Gerald - 28 Gun Bad Boy
Cloud 9 - You Got Me Burning
DJ RedAlert and Mike Slammer - In Effect
Enforcers 2
Johnny Jungle - Johnny
Lewi Cifer - Heat
Manix - Heading To The Light-EP
Primary Source - The Och
Q-Project - Champion Sound
Scott and Keith - Deranged
Straight From The Bedroom Pt 1 - The Box Opened
Tango and Ratty - The Final Conflict/Tales From The Darkside
firefinga
Well-known member
April 1993
Here is my list for April 1993:
Bizzy B and Peshay - Merder Style
D.O.P.E. - When I Was young (Danny Breaks Breakadelikism Mix)
DJ Hype - Shot In The Dark (Gunshot Mix)/Weird Energy (Hell's Bells Mix)
DJ SS - Breakbeat Pressure 3 Remixes
Noise Factory - Year Of The Ladies - EP
Omni Trio - Feel Good
Q Bass - Funky Hardcore (DJ Hype Remix)
Here is my list for April 1993:
Bizzy B and Peshay - Merder Style
D.O.P.E. - When I Was young (Danny Breaks Breakadelikism Mix)
DJ Hype - Shot In The Dark (Gunshot Mix)/Weird Energy (Hell's Bells Mix)
DJ SS - Breakbeat Pressure 3 Remixes
Noise Factory - Year Of The Ladies - EP
Omni Trio - Feel Good
Q Bass - Funky Hardcore (DJ Hype Remix)
firefinga
Well-known member
May 1993
Here is my list for May 1993:
DJ Solo Axis/Darkage
Formula 7 - Dark Star
Foul Play - Finest Illusion (Original Mix)
Foul Play - Open Your Mind
Invisible Man - Twisted/The End (Drug Induced Psychosis Mix)
Johnny Jungle - Jungle (Bad Influence Mix)
Mixrace - Mixrace Outta Hand
Omni Trio - Feel Better (Foul Play Remix)
Origin Unknown - Valley Of The Shadows
Here is my list for May 1993:
DJ Solo Axis/Darkage
Formula 7 - Dark Star
Foul Play - Finest Illusion (Original Mix)
Foul Play - Open Your Mind
Invisible Man - Twisted/The End (Drug Induced Psychosis Mix)
Johnny Jungle - Jungle (Bad Influence Mix)
Mixrace - Mixrace Outta Hand
Omni Trio - Feel Better (Foul Play Remix)
Origin Unknown - Valley Of The Shadows
nah you are confusing "well produced" with "tasteful". there's nothing tasteful about "euphoria (nino's dream)" or the Acen singles.
i do think of most of the production house stuff as hardcore though, because of the nutt-E vibe.
but solo 'darkage' is definitely jungle
there was a ray keith remix of 'let me be your fantasy' i think there was jungalistic and moody
Prodigy did do "Ruff in the Jungle" on the debut album - which is great, but not really jungle
luka
Well-known member
no, i was just not clear. i meant that one tune is tasteful, not tunes like trip to the moon!
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
I'd also add that low bass is more important in jungle than hardcore. There are a lot of hardcore tracks that don't feature really low bass. This is rare in jungle.
808 boom bass is very common in jungle and not in hardcore. On the other hand digi-dub bass (reggae bass lines played with synthesised sine waves) are common in hardcore, but rare in jungle.