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  1. #1
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    Default UK EU Referendum Aftermath

    oof!

    well - although i certainly didn't vote for it - it has happened. consequently it seems like the sane thing is to try and come to terms with it.

    funnily enough the voices in the aftermath i've found comfort from are people who i usually cannot stand - that's the duo at the guardian of john harris and owen jones who unlike ALL the insular metropolitan socialists (corbyns final remain rally beside the guardian's offices beside a waitrose in islington - lol) that make up labour today have realised that this is the working class speaking.

    the comment leading harris' article "'If you've got money, you vote in ... if you haven't got money, you vote out'" - rings very powerfully over this. and frankly - although i think it's an insane, paranoid and even suicidal thing for the uk to have to done to itself, it has to be reckoned with.

  2. #2

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    Harris's article is very good.

  3. #3

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    Worth excerpting some of it:

    Most of all, Brexit is the consequence of the economic bargain struck in the early 1980s, whereby we waved goodbye to the security and certainties of the postwar settlement, and were given instead an economic model that has just about served the most populous parts of the country, while leaving too much of the rest to anxiously decline....

    For six years now, often with my colleague John Domokos, I have been travelling around the UK... trying to divine the national mood, if such a thing exists. I look back, and find all sorts of auguries of what has just happened. As an early warning, there was the temporary arrival of the British National party in electoral politics from 2006 onwards..

    A few years later, we met builders in South Shields who told us that their hourly rate had come down by £3 thanks to new arrivals from eastern Europe; the mother in Stourbridge who wanted a new school for “our kids”; the former docker in Liverpool who looked at rows of empty warehouses and exclaimed, “Where’s the work?”

    In Peterborough in 2013, we found a town riven by cold resentments, where people claimed agencies would only hire non-UK nationals who would work insane shifts for risible rates; in the Ukip heartlands of Lincolnshire, we chronicled communities built around agricultural work and food processing that were cleanly divided in two, between optimistic new arrivals and resentful, miserable locals – where Nigel Farage could pitch up and do back-to-back public meetings to rapturous crowds....

    In so many places, there has long been the same mixture of deep worry and often seething anger. Only rarely has it tipped into outright hate.. but it still seems to represent a new turn in the national condition.
    More:

    And all the time, the story that has now reached such a spectacular denouement has been bubbling a way. Last year, 3.8 million people voted for Ukip. The Labour party’s vote is in a state of seemingly unstoppable decline as its membership becomes ever-more metropolitan and middle class, problems the ascendancy of Jeremy Corbyn has seemingly made worse. Indeed, if the story of the last few months is of politicians who know far too little of their own supposed “core” voters, the Labour leader might be seen as that problem incarnate. The trade unions are nowhere to be seen, and the Thatcher-era ability of Conservatism to speak powerfully to working-class aspiration has been mislaid. In short, England and Wales were characterised by an ever-growing vacuum, until David Cameron – now surely revealed as the most disastrous holder of the office in our democratic history – made the decision that might turn out to have utterly changed the terms of our politics.

    (...)

    Of course, most of the media, which is largely now part of the same detached London entity that great English patriot William Cobbett called “the thing”, failed to see this coming. Their world is one of photo ops, the great non-event that is PMQs, and absurd debates between figures that the public no longer cares about. The alienation of the people charged with documenting the national mood from the people who actually define it is one of the ruptures that has led to this moment: certainly, wherever I go, the press and television are the focus of as much resentment as politics. While we are on the subject, it is also time we set aside the dismal science of opinion polling, which should surely now stick to product testing and the like. Understanding of the country at large has for too long been framed in percentages and leading questions: it is time people went into the country, and simply listened.

  4. #4
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    Very good article, though I don't agree with everything he says.

    And specifically wrt Corbyn - snipe all you want, but the alternatives are much worse.

    For me personally, the greatest priority now is seeing Corbyn continue at the head of the Labour Party. If he goes, and is replaced by someone whose opposition to austerity is mere rhetoric and whose involvement in politics is based purely upon their career advancement rather than principle (which has obviously been the idea all along, since....the second he was confirmed as the leader?), then there will be no meaningful choice at the next general election, and Britain* will again have got exactly what it has asked for. And then endlessly complains about.

    *Sorry, England & Wales (& NI?)
    Last edited by baboon2004; 25-06-2016 at 11:00 AM.

  5. #5
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    I've decided to opt for complete denial/ deluded fantasy:

    https://waitingfortax.com/2016/06/24...-i-mean-maybe/

    He makes reference to anecdotal evidence of fairly large voter regret. This certainly suggests so:

    https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/s...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

  6. #6
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    If you've got money, you vote in ... if you haven't got money, you vote out'"

    Is broadly true but in London and other multicultural cities the picture is very different

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    For me personally, the greatest priority now is seeing Corbyn continue at the head of the Labour Party.
    jeremy corbyn is a bourgeois fantasist. socialism does not appeal to the working classes - frankly they are too sensible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woebot View Post
    socialism does not appeal to the working classes
    It doesn't now. It certainly used to.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woebot View Post
    jeremy corbyn is a bourgeois fantasist. socialism does not appeal to the working classes - frankly they are too sensible.
    Can you explain exactly what you mean by 'bourgeois fantasist' here - I'm interested, as just throwing around vague insults that sound nice is no use to anyone. Especially at the moment.

    And I think you might be romanticising wildly there. It is abundantly clear this week that, as in the middle class and the upper class and every damn class, there are some staggeringly thick people in the working classes. There are also some incredibly bright people and some people of medium intelligence and.... jeez. Is this really a sponsored week for ridiculous blanket statements (and yes, I'm sure I'm guilty of it too)?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eave-ebbw-vale just to be lazy and take the most bleedingly obvious example
    Last edited by baboon2004; 26-06-2016 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #10

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    The labour Party rebels would be a disgrace if they weren't such an utter joke

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