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Thread: UK EU Referendum Aftermath

  1. #31
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    this was a vote from the *white* working classes (majority of BME voters, most of whom are still working class, did not vote the same, not cos they love how things are, or its any better, but because to vote leave would be tantamount to a vote for UKIP, if not in name, than in ideology) to the rest of the country. nothing to do with the EU. and i dont really blame them. the campaigns were dire and did little to really identify any of the actual EU related issues at stake. also seems to be a big vote from white, older pensioners, or those approaching pensionable age (there was some stat about how people who identified as british were less likely to vote leave than those who saw themselves as english) yearning for the days of post-empire enriched britain.

    might as well not have had boxes for in or out, but just for 'the past' and 'the modern world'. most people in the interviews are angry, talk about how things cant get any worse. its a rejection of the bleakness of modern britain. (all those brexit regret videos seem like further condescension of anyone who opposed remain, a way to avoid accepting why they voted how they did. also, telling leave voters that they are thick and did not understand what they were doing is a fast track to further 'culture war', which looks like the latest rebranding of class war to my eyes, but n/m).

    easy for cameron to just resign after being the one to get us into this situation in the first place, who made it easier for poorer people around the country to slip into dire straits. also really poor of labour to think now is the time for yet another leadership battle. all sinking ships. id expect boris to lead england. not because anyone really has hope in him. but because they just dont care anymore. and there is no one better. (and also because he is a duplicitous, soulless cunt, who will do anything to take power).
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 26-06-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #32
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    ah who gives a shit. he might be sad that he has made his friend resign from being PM, but hes not that sad. he got what he wanted.

    Yep - is there a chance he won't even stand for PM? He knows there's a big chance that he'll end up being hated by absolutely everyone, which might be unbearable for such an attention-seeker.
    only in london. or some of the other cities perhaps. elsewhere, i doubt he inspires that kind of hate.

    " that among the divides exposed in this referendum, the most dangerous one was within a Labour movement that cared more for the moral high ground of progressive liberalism than the lives of the working and non-working poor."
    Yeah, thats clearly the most dangerous divide, not the divide between multicultural minorities and racist neo-fascist murdering thugs, who will edge closer and closer to power once Scotland dumps the UK and the remainder moves to an eternal little england Tory one party state.
    it is. but on street level, it will be the usual scapegoats (migrants, anyone who looks like a migrant, etc etc).

    eg - https://www.facebook.com/sarah.lebla...8638985&type=3
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 26-06-2016 at 12:39 PM.

  3. #33

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    Mostly anecdotal, but still a note making the intuitively correct point that more settled and lower income migrants are more likely to have voted leave:

    In the aftermath of yesterday’s vote for Brexit, I had several conversations that surprised me. The first, with a Romanian who had recently arrived in the UK, who claimed that all the Indians and Pakistanis he knew had voted for Brexit. The second, with Pakistani friends, was that an overwhelming majority of their friends had voted for Brexit, even though they did not normally vote. The reasons given were economic: they expected lower taxes and lower competition from Eastern European migrants in low-wage jobs.

    Slough, Luton and Dagenham, all areas with large South Asian populations voted leave, and Leicester, Newham and Harrow were very close to 50%. This may mirror a quixotic pattern that we saw in the last general election, where older Irish voters supported UKIP over Labour. Migrants, especially settled migrants in a precarious economic situation, can see other migrants as a threat, especially where they are not linked to them by ties of family or culture. Paul Collier argues that recent migrants are much more likely to lose out from further migration than other people.
    http://www.integrationhub.net/britai...e-brexit-vote/

  4. #34
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    no one is saying all BME people voted remain. its something like 60% asian brits voted remain, and 70% black brits voted remain. what can you do? migrants are as competitive as anyone else. and often people just give the new arrivals the same treatment they got. hard hearts, poor memories.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 26-06-2016 at 12:23 PM.

  5. #35

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    Sure, and how that vote is distributed is likely to vary along different lines, like income, age, location, etc, etc. Be nice to see some statistics showing how it all breaks down.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    How much of that (alleged regret of leave voters, stupidly not knowing what the EU is or that their votes might have an effect) is a real phenomenon and how much an extension of the same derision from remain voters that clearly motivated many of them in the first place?
    Given that it is all anecdotal evidence, it'd be hard to say. I'm hoping polling will give us a more accurate answer.

    After seeing the immediate economic shock, the potential break up of the Union and the back peddling on pledges such as funding the NHS and reducing immigration, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a fair bit of voter regret.

    Polls showed that the majority of people weren't willing to lose a single pound of their annual income to reduce immigration. At the same time the areas that are the most economically dependant on the EU voted to leave. This would suggest voters were fairly ignorant on how the EU benefited them.

    There's been a shift in editorial tone from the Daily Mail (1.5 million circulation) and the Sunday Times. That might make a difference.
    Last edited by sadmanbarty; 26-06-2016 at 12:30 PM.

  7. #37
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    I don't think the derision is entirely underserved. Many people in this country are genuinely ignorant of nearly every aspect of politics.

    I mean, I admit that I'm ignorant compared to some people who post a lot about politics here, but at least I know that.
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  8. #38
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    After seeing the immediate economic shock, the potential break up of the Union and the back peddling on pledges such as funding the NHS and reducing immigration, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a fair bit of voter regret.
    some. but most are probably still angry for the same things. now they might also just angry at lying politicians. but they probably still just want a change, any change. this sort of self flattery from remainers, 'cant they just see the error of their ways?!', makes me laugh a bit. do british people care that much about being lied to? im not sure. i think we are inured to it. i dont think most remainers really knew what they were voting for either. all it seemed to come down to was what 'idea' of england we wanted, rather than any material issues at play. which is important. i think this has changed britain psychologically. but most people seemed in the dark i think.

    TBH, and i know google exists, but one of this countrys main failings in education i think is not teaching politics early enough to students. though obv that depends what kind of school you went to.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 26-06-2016 at 12:48 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woebot View Post
    jeremy corbyn is a bourgeois fantasist. socialism does not appeal to the working classes - frankly they are too sensible.
    Can you explain exactly what you mean by 'bourgeois fantasist' here - I'm interested, as just throwing around vague insults that sound nice is no use to anyone. Especially at the moment.

    And I think you might be romanticising wildly there. It is abundantly clear this week that, as in the middle class and the upper class and every damn class, there are some staggeringly thick people in the working classes. There are also some incredibly bright people and some people of medium intelligence and.... jeez. Is this really a sponsored week for ridiculous blanket statements (and yes, I'm sure I'm guilty of it too)?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eave-ebbw-vale just to be lazy and take the most bleedingly obvious example
    Last edited by baboon2004; 26-06-2016 at 01:04 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdingyrapids View Post
    this was a vote from the *white* working classes
    And Mandy Suthi, lol.
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  11. #41
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    well, yes, her too, excellent detective work.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdingyrapids View Post
    this was a vote from the *white* working classes (majority of BME voters, most of whom are still working class, did not vote the same, not cos they love how things are, or its any better, but because to vote leave would be tantamount to a vote for UKIP, if not in name, than in ideology) to the rest of the country. nothing to do with the EU. and i dont really blame them.
    I can agree with all of that (the working class has certainly been painted as monolithic this week across the media, as though non-white working class people were just an illusion), except the last part. This was a protest vote that will only end up hurt working class communities, and which shows a tacit acceptance of racist right-wing ideologies. I think that is something for which people absolutely can and should be held responsible, especially as there are obviously many, many white working class people who didn't vote to screw their own communities yet further, or to bolster racism and xenophobia.

    Which is not to say that I don't understand the protest vote, because it's obviously understandable. It's just self-defeating and catering to fascism.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 26-06-2016 at 01:14 PM.

  13. #43

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    Dismissing and deriding the concerns of ordinary people is what led to the outcome of the referendum - and similar dynamics are still at play in most major European countries. The plebs may be uneducated, but many of them figured out how their betters regard them, and how they could be hurt. The "secret people" have proved willing and able to take Britain out of the EU to make their voices heard; perhaps, instead of this wishful thinking, it's time to start listening.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    I can agree with all of that (the working class has certainly been painted as monolithic this week across the media, as though non-white working class people were just an illusion), except the last part. This was a protest vote that will only end up hurt working class communities, and which shows a tacit acceptance of racist right-wing ideologies. I think that is something for which people absolutely can and should be held responsible, especially as there are obviously many, many white working class people who didn't vote to screw their own communities yet further, or to bolster racism and xenophobia.

    Which is not to say that I don't understand the protest vote, because it's obviously understandable. It's just self-defeating and catering to fascism.
    agreed.
    Last edited by rubberdingyrapids; 26-06-2016 at 01:28 PM.

  15. #45
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    @ Vimothy - I don't know if that's aimed at my comment, but I agree with you anyways on the practical necessity of offering something better to those people who feel completely disenfranchised and that they have nothing left to lose (again, I don't see any mainstream figures other than Corbyn offering anything different in UK politics at present, hence my interest in seeing him stay). Absolutely, otherwise it's blatantly clear what will happen.

    But it doesn't mean that I don't reserve the right to deride those who chose to align themselves with fascists, as well as with those who will rip apart their communities even further.

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