IdleRich

IdleRich
‘The body does not consist of one member but of many... If one member suffers, all suffer together with it; if one member is honoured, all rejoice together with it.’
Thought that May had finally begun to understand what is good about the EU for a second there...
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
Just to be clear, she was actually talking about the Commonwealth which is a completely different and therefore good union of countries...
Anyway, May is flying to Strasbourg again tonight. Is there something up, some glimmer of hope for this most inflexible and unimaginative of almost-leaders? I sincerely hope not. I'm hoping against hope that her deal is defeated tomorrow and that in the following days they vote to prevent "no deal" and for an extension. I'm a worrier, but surely May can't pull a rabbit out of the hat and do something to get her deal through... can she?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
So what is this new deal that May is touting? Is it actually different? Can it get through parliament? I hope to fuck not...
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I think if the deal fails as now is looking likely, the govt will go for an extension? Can an extension get through parliament.

I listened to most of a Carole Calldwalldr interview this morning (Gaslit Nation podcast) and it had me having fantasies of having Aaron Banks put to death. Can you still have people hung for treason? Could we bring it back as a special one off?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm still hoping that something will happen at the last minute and pull the plug on the whole thing.

A nearby gamma-ray burst sterilizing the Earth's surface of all multicellular life is looking more and more appealing.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Vote tomorrow on whether to reject a No Deal exit at the end of the month. Tories will get a free vote on it but I don't think a majority are mad enough to opt for ND. Labour will obviously reject it except for maybe a handful of lunatics.

Then, assuming it is rejected, another vote on whether to extend the deadline until June.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well that was a damn sight closer than I thought it would be.

Tory hardliners inevitably spouting off about how the result isn't legally binding - never mind that the referendum wasn't legally binding in the first place, of course.
 

Leo

Well-known member
fuckin' hell, tea! support the free press before it disappears, it'll be you fault!!

How a Strange Massachusetts Election Helps Explain Britain’s Brexit Chaos

LONDON — This is the story of a strange election in a small Massachusetts city called Fall River that, believe or not, helps explain Britain’s week of Brexit chaos and its uncertain future.

Fall River’s saga began in October, when its then-26-year-old mayor, Jasiel Correia, was arrested on charges of defrauding investors and falsifying tax returns. He had raised funding to develop a marketing app called SnoOwl but, according to prosecutors, instead spent $230,000 of investors’ money on jewelry, clothes, a Mercedes and his successful mayoral campaign.

Mr. Correia contested the charges and refused to step down. So some citizens of Fall River got enough signatures to force a recall election, which was held on Tuesday.

The recall election was an absolute walloping for the mayor. About 61 percent voted to remove him from office. Only 4,911 people, or 38 percent, voted to keep him in office. It was a clear popular mandate.

But there was a twist. The ballot had two questions: one on whether to recall Mr. Correia, and another on whom to replace him with. Five people ran to fill the mayor’s seat — Mr. Correia among them.

It might seem like the height of hubris for a mayor under federal indictment to run for re-election even as he is being recalled. But whether he knew it or not, he was onto something.

Mr. Correia received 4,808 votes in the balloting on who should be the next mayor — almost exactly the number he had gotten on the recall question. But with the other four candidates splitting the rest of the vote, that was enough to put him ahead.

Yes, that’s right: The same election that removed Mr. Correia by a nearly two-to-one ratio also returned him to office.

Democracy can be a strange system sometimes.

Which brings us back to Brexit.

Part of what’s confounding Parliament’s votes on how or when to leave the European Union is that, as in Fall River, British governance is shaped by two different elections that produced two different results.

The first of those elections, the 2016 referendum on whether to leave the European Union, recorded a slight majority of voters choosing to leave and a slight minority choosing to stay.

The second, a general election held in 2017, appeared to send a different message. The ruling Conservative party, whose members had championed Brexit, lost seats. But the opposition Labour party did not win enough to take power.

The results seemed to tell lawmakers that they do not have a mandate to follow the Conservative party. And they told Conservatives that they do not have a mandate to obey their prime minister.

That muddle is on full display in the votes in Parliament.

On the one hand, British lawmakers believe that, because of the 2016 vote, they have a mandate to make Brexit happen, no matter what.

But because British voters did not express a clear majority for any specific vision in the 2017 general election, British lawmakers cannot form a clear majority for any one plan on how to withdraw from the European Union.

Mrs. May’s plan failed by a triple-digit margin when it was put to a vote in Parliament. A “no-deal” Brexit, favored by hard-liners, also failed. And there is not a majority for other options, like a second referendum or simply revoking Brexit.
Capturing public sentiment and converting it into governance is a messy, imperfect science. The way you design an election can shape the outcome just as much as the actual choices made by voters. Sometimes more.

That’s why the ballot in Fall River delivered one message from the public that Mr. Correia should pack his bags, and another that he should sit back down at his desk.

Democracy is built on the notion that any election outcome reflects the will of the people, and therefore must be respected. But as Fall River shows, that notion is, to some degree, a myth.

Elections test only what you design them to test. And tests of public sentiment becomes less scientific — and, frankly, less real — the more complex the question.

Fall River tried to ask its voters “Do you want to remove the mayor and, if so, whom do you want to replace him with?” But that question turned out to be too complicated. And the outcome clearly does not actually reflect public desire — since most people voted to recall the mayor.

Britain has been trying to test a vastly more complex question: “Do you want to leave the European Union and, if so, under what timeline and terms?”
The 2016 referendum corralled all of the many different options for leaving — soft Brexit, hard Brexit, Norway-style Brexit, Canada-style Brexit, Brexit under only certain conditions, Brexit under any conditions — under a single option: “Leave.”

As a result, the most popular plan, to remain in the European Union, narrowly lost. Much the way Mayor Correia is still in City Hall, despite the clear will of the people.

In a world where we acknowledge that elections can be imperfect and even arbitrary tests of public sentiment, we might look at Britain’s two votes and conclude that there is no majority consensus for any single Brexit. The past year of Parliamentary chaos, with lawmakers unable to coalesce around a plan, bears this out. We may also conclude that the most popular option is to remain in the European Union, which polls support.

But that is not the world that we live in. In this world, the mythology of elections says that they are perfect, infallible expressions of the people’s will, and their results must be obeyed.

In Britain, that means lawmakers are bending over backward to find a public mandate for one plan or another when in fact none actually exists.
So Parliament is deadlocked and, unable to pass anything, drifting toward a “no-deal” Brexit. That is not only the least-popular option — it may also devastate the British economy.

That seems an awfully high cost for maintaining the myth of perfect elections, but it’s the choice being made.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
That's an interesting article but one thing about the Fall River story that boggles my mind is why a candidate who's committed massive fraud - or is at least currently under investigation for it - is allowed to put his name on the ballot paper in the first place.

On the one hand, British lawmakers believe that, because of the 2016 vote, they have a mandate to make Brexit happen, no matter what.

But because British voters did not express a clear majority for any specific vision in the 2017 general election, British lawmakers cannot form a clear majority for any one plan on how to withdraw from the European Union.

There would probably be a bit more clarity if one of the two main parties was, at the leadership level, actually anti-Brexit.
 

droid

Well-known member
The French have said they will deny May's 3 month gambit.

May shouting down the entire house today whilst facing open revolt from the entire house as they attempt to wrest power from the executive.

TM to make some kind of announcement at 8pm tonight. Could this be finally it for the most ridiculous PM in history?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Just read this, sounds too good to be true but....

Is no-deal the legal default?

Rose Slowe, an Honorary Research Fellow at University of Bristol Law School, an author on EU law, and a barrister at Foundry Chambers thinks not.

Her expert learned opinion is:

Leaving the EU without a deal on 29 March 2019 is not the “legal default”, as has been repeatedly, but wrongly, asserted. It would, in fact, be in violation of the supreme law at both the domestic and supranational level, namely the UK constitution and EU Treaties (or more broadly, the General Principles of Community Law which includes ECJ jurisprudence alongside the Treaties). As such, without an Act of Parliament authorising Brexit in whatever form, the legal default is that the Article 50 notice issued will lapse, if not unilaterally revoked.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
"Government could ignore indicative Brexit votes, says Liam Fox"

Arguably the biggest cunt of them all. How is he still in government at any level?!?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Arguably the biggest cunt of them all.

Under anything like normal circumstances I'd agree with you, but as it is I'm not sure he significantly stands out about the background cuntery of Gove, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Hannan and the rest. It really is an all-star line-up of suppurating ani.
 
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