UK EU Referendum Aftermath
- Thread starter Woebot
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luka
Well-known member
Quoted himself citing Satan as the first radical. Did Fox News ever get hold of this? I can picture the headline.
"Obama mentor wrote book praising SATAN for his radical politics."
luka
Well-known member
I heard of him cos the right were trying to tarnish Obama via his links with alinsky I thought sweet I will buy that book then
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, a written constitution is looking like a pretty fucking good idea right now. Maybe it's too late and irreversible damage has already been done, I don't know.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah, that pissed me off at the time. In general the left has been out-manoeuvred by the right's willingness to fight dirty. The left has underestimated that time and time again and been defeated as a result. They do need to fight dirtier... but I think unfortunately some moves are just not available to you if you want to see yourself as the goodies. I mean this is all the "ends justifies the means" debate really but I think that not all means are justified and maybe that's a built-in problem for the kind of people I'm gonna like.
comelately
Wild Horses
While I don't disagree per se, I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit and offer the following published earlier this year:
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/201...n-to-refuse-royal-assent-to-a-backbench-bill/
tl;dr - Amending Standing Order 14 is constitutionally ropey, and takes Parliament towards being like the USA system of a predominantly policy-making legislature coupled with an executive veto. Therefore, it does make sense that the executive might decide to indeed wield the veto. Of course, Parliament can vote no-confidence........ah.
What's really clear is that the Fixed-Term Parliament Act was a dreadful piece of legislation, and historians will not look upon its writers kindly.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/201...n-to-refuse-royal-assent-to-a-backbench-bill/
tl;dr - Amending Standing Order 14 is constitutionally ropey, and takes Parliament towards being like the USA system of a predominantly policy-making legislature coupled with an executive veto. Therefore, it does make sense that the executive might decide to indeed wield the veto. Of course, Parliament can vote no-confidence........ah.
What's really clear is that the Fixed-Term Parliament Act was a dreadful piece of legislation, and historians will not look upon its writers kindly.
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Brexit, the Tories, and the Constitution
A thread on how we got here, with actual examples
1. Secretaries of State repeatedly misled the House and its committees over the extent and existence of Brexit sector analyses reports
2. The government prolonged the current parliamentary session over two years, so that there would not be a Queen's Speech
3. The government packed committees with Tory majorities, even though it is a hung parliament, by procedural sleight of hand
4. The government repeatedly ignored and did not even participate in votes on opposition motions
And then disregarded the motions passed
5. The government sought to make the Article 50 notification without any parliamentary approval whatsoever, and forced litigation to go all the way to the Supreme Court so that parliament could have that approval
6. The government committed itself to billions of pounds of public expenditure in a blatant bribe to the DUP for support in a supply and confidence vote
7. The government repeatedly sought to circumvent or abuse the Sewell convention in its dealings with the devolved administrations
8. The government sought to legislate for staggeringly wider "Henry VIII powers" so that it could legislate and even repeal Acts without any recourse to parliament
9. The government became the first administration in parliamentary history to be held to be in contempt of parliament
10. The government stood by when there were attacks on the independent judiciary and the independent civil service
"Enemies of the People"
"Traitors"
11. The government deliberately broke the pairing convention, in respect of an MP on maternity leave, so that the the government could win a vote
12. The government gave serious consideration to blocking a duly passed Bill from obtaining Royal Assent
13. The government has now locked the doors of parliament for five weeks in the crucial run-up to a no deal Brexit, just to avoid scrutiny and adverse legislation
14. Today a senior cabinet minister refused to commit the government to complying with any laws passed by parliament
15. And the response of government supporters to anyone disturbed by this pattern of increasingly serious constitutional wrongs?
"Hysterical"
But these concrete examples show there is something serious to be worried about
Something bad is happening, and it has to be stopped
/ends
A thread on how we got here, with actual examples
1. Secretaries of State repeatedly misled the House and its committees over the extent and existence of Brexit sector analyses reports
2. The government prolonged the current parliamentary session over two years, so that there would not be a Queen's Speech
3. The government packed committees with Tory majorities, even though it is a hung parliament, by procedural sleight of hand
4. The government repeatedly ignored and did not even participate in votes on opposition motions
And then disregarded the motions passed
5. The government sought to make the Article 50 notification without any parliamentary approval whatsoever, and forced litigation to go all the way to the Supreme Court so that parliament could have that approval
6. The government committed itself to billions of pounds of public expenditure in a blatant bribe to the DUP for support in a supply and confidence vote
7. The government repeatedly sought to circumvent or abuse the Sewell convention in its dealings with the devolved administrations
8. The government sought to legislate for staggeringly wider "Henry VIII powers" so that it could legislate and even repeal Acts without any recourse to parliament
9. The government became the first administration in parliamentary history to be held to be in contempt of parliament
10. The government stood by when there were attacks on the independent judiciary and the independent civil service
"Enemies of the People"
"Traitors"
11. The government deliberately broke the pairing convention, in respect of an MP on maternity leave, so that the the government could win a vote
12. The government gave serious consideration to blocking a duly passed Bill from obtaining Royal Assent
13. The government has now locked the doors of parliament for five weeks in the crucial run-up to a no deal Brexit, just to avoid scrutiny and adverse legislation
14. Today a senior cabinet minister refused to commit the government to complying with any laws passed by parliament
15. And the response of government supporters to anyone disturbed by this pattern of increasingly serious constitutional wrongs?
"Hysterical"
But these concrete examples show there is something serious to be worried about
Something bad is happening, and it has to be stopped
/ends
IdleRich
IdleRich
So is the situation that Johnson won't be able to get No Deal legislation through parliament, and in fact, even with his poroguing he won't be able to stop anti-no-deal legislation so he's gonna go for an election on the belief that that will give him a majority for No Deal? Whereas originally he was threatening to delay the election until after the deadline he's now confident enough he can win it to not do that?
comelately
Wild Horses
The problem is Dr David Nicol is a card-carrying 'Remoaner' so the fact that he had strong input into Yellowhammer feeds the narrative that it was a piece of internal propaganda that sought to make no-deal look as terrifying as possible.
One screen, two movies!
One screen, two movies!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That's a pretty good Catch-22. Anyone who is well informed about the likely consequences of a NDB, has an ounce of compassion, and is honest and not a coward, is going to be screaming from the rooftops about what a terrible idea it is. But this defines them as a Remoaner, so - well, then they would say that, wouldn't they? They are "biased" and can therefore safety be ignored.
Thus, in the absence of anyone who can be taken seriously having anything negative to say about NDB, it's obviously going to be fine and we can all KC&CO.
Thus, in the absence of anyone who can be taken seriously having anything negative to say about NDB, it's obviously going to be fine and we can all KC&CO.
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