droid

Well-known member
lol, explains a lot...

So, your saying if you walk into the wrong pub in Blackburn you will get shot?
 

luka

Well-known member
I've drunk with loads of Muslims in Wetherspoons you lot are mad thinking the Muslims don't love a beer. It's like thinking no Jews eat bacon.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
And who's never seen Jains going totally nuts over a barbeque? Fighting over the last chicken drumstick. Mental.
 

luka

Well-known member
I'm serious. I've been pissed up with Muslims loads. I come from a very Muslim area. Third form will back me up. He's always going on about raki.
 

comelately

Wild Horses
I'm serious. I've been pissed up with Muslims loads. I come from a very Muslim area. Third form will back me up. He's always going on about raki.

I happily stand corrected, and it's not like I've never made a Turkish woman a bacon sandwich, but I think you know the broad point I was driving at.

My Dad had a belief/story, might be bollocks, that the Muslims in Oldham used to drink a bit more but they started turning up to the Mosques halfcut and so the Imams put a stop to it.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I could point that third is hardly your typical Muslim but then I'm sure he'd rather die than be considered your typical anything.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
You're making me really angry at this point - particularly because you're dismissing the experience of my friend in such an arrogant way, and in wider terms again reducing structural racism to "a couple of dickheads". So genuinely scary and upsetting racism is all just ' a couple of dickheads' if there aren't any "ethnic ghettos, widespread racialized street gang violence or regular EDL rallies"? Right. That does make you pretty blind and deaf, tbh.

I obviously concur that that this blindness and deafness has no necessary connection with your being white, again demonstrating that you have understood nothing of what I have said before; it's that your worldview is impervious to new information, and you can safely ignore/not listen to any new information on the subject because you are white (as of course can I, whenever I choose to; if I wanted to I could then blame all racism on 'a couple of (thousand) dickheads', and round and round we go while nothing changes). What's that phenomenon called again..?

You have absolutely zero sincere interest in discussing the subject - well, maybe your own interest is in not having to acknowledge how the world is and feel difficult feelings - so I am finally making good on my promise and withdrawing at this point.

https://exepose.com/2019/02/27/misogyny-and-racism-in-exeter/ - Tea's response: "Oh that's really bad, just some random dickheads though!" The writer is comparing Exeter unfavourably TO PORTSMOUTH. And her friends live in Exeter too, probably for three years just like you (read the piece to understand, if you're bothered).
And interestingly, she rebuts the exact point you try to make: "Even before this incident, I was more scared here than in my hometown where murders and assaults happen frequently."

It's not about intellectual arguments and pointing to statistics; it's about visceral fear and whether or not you are forced to feel it because of how you appear.
Discriminatory violence from structural racism/misogyny/ableism etc cannot be 'measured out' against ordinary violence, and as it happens, Owen Jones is particularly good on this point...

But I think even your full original sentence is incorrect. Or at least a gross exaggeration. Yes, I'm white, but that doesn't make me blind and deaf. Exeter does not have ethnic ghettos, widespread racialized street gang violence or regular EDL rallies - all of which are found in some cities with much bigger ethnic minority populations, where black and brown people still live despite an obviously higher likelihood of hassle or violence.

It's not 'civic pride' - I don't come from this part of the country and have no particular spiritual bond with the place. It's just annoying in that I've lived here for three years and have some idea what it's actually like, and you're telling me I'm wrong because you've visited occasionally and had run-ins with a couple of dickheads.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
OJ just took a kicking as well, ironically enough.

He's convinced it's a targeted political attack, I did wonder if it was "just" random gaybashing on reading his account.

Glad he's not more seriously hurt.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I think he's very probably right, as there's been a concerted far right campaign against him for a while. When you know, you know, and he seems certain of it.

Either way, it's a grim time to be a journalist or a politician with any integrity in the UK. I'm haven't always been Owen Jones' greatest fan, but I have nothing but admiration for the courage he's shown recently, and also for the general way he conducts himself.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I can't stand him myself but my opinions, whatever. It's very worrying when journalists come under attack.

I do think he's made a contribution to polarising rhetoric but still....

(Thought experiment - wondering if I'd like to see someone thump Aaron Bastani - it's still a "no")
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
But I think even your full original sentence is incorrect. Or at least a gross exaggeration. Yes, I'm white, but that doesn't make me blind and deaf. Exeter does not have ethnic ghettos, widespread racialized street gang violence or regular EDL rallies - all of which are found in some cities with much bigger ethnic minority populations, where black and brown people still live despite an obviously higher likelihood of hassle or violence.

It's not 'civic pride' - I don't come from this part of the country and have no particular spiritual bond with the place. It's just annoying in that I've lived here for three years and have some idea what it's actually like, and you're telling me I'm wrong because you've visited occasionally and had run-ins with a couple of dickheads.

i think actually that it does
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Yes, because the differing experience of someone of colour in a white society is exactly the same as noticing an EDL rally.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
yeh i mean i won't dispute that, everybody would notice such a rally. i just think of it as seeing infrared, i clearly can't cos i don't have the senses for it, yet i can see a fire. i'm not aware of the constant presence of it though, and that's the difference. i suggested going to a football match the other day to one of my friends and she got kind of agitated by the question alone, i dropped the subject but later found out she was annoyed for me not realizing going to a stadium filled with drunk white people can be a dangerous situation for her, or at least a stressful one. that never crossed my mind because i don't have the senses for it. just a small example.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Yes, because the differing experience of someone of colour in a white society is exactly the same as noticing an EDL rally.

Obviously actual fascist rallies through a city are the very thick end of the wedge and are visible to people like me who aren't directly affected by other, more everyday experiences. But I've gone out of my way here to accept that yes, obviously there is racism here. Of course there is. What I'm questioning is whether it's a notorious national racism hotspot when you consider that there are many places with a substantial organised far-right presence, which - touch wood - is absent in this area.

(Actually I tell a lie when I say there are no fascist rallies here. Katie Hopkins held a pro-Brexit "rally" last year, or attempted to: about 20 people turned up)
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
yeh i mean i won't dispute that, everybody would notice such a rally. i just think of it as seeing infrared, i clearly can't cos i don't have the senses for it, yet i can see a fire. i'm not aware of the constant presence of it though, and that's the difference. i suggested going to a football match the other day to one of my friends and she got kind of agitated by the question alone, i dropped the subject but later found out she was annoyed for me not realizing going to a stadium filled with drunk white people can be a dangerous situation for her, or at least a stressful one. that never crossed my mind because i don't have the senses for it. just a small example.

Yes sure, I accept all of that.
 
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