thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Yeah yeah yeah, and the Nazis could have been stopped in the same way. I get it. If everyone did this, or a decent fraction of everyone did it, it would work and there would be change. Clearly that isn't going to happen, because unless everyone did it at once, the few who actually did bother would be risking life and liberty for no purpose.

He's right that everyone has different ways of pretending to themselves that they're doing something to help, whether it's sharing online petitions or writing haughty rants on Medium.


Yes, risking life and liberties, because those inactive generally, tacitly believe that other people have to do that for them so they can have a clean conscience, either with their boss, their children as investment plan or man/woman. its cowardice. and yes, the nazis came to power because most people in the allied imperialistic countries were racist cowards to a t and approved of them, this is no secret. the nazis just doubled down on a crude revolting aspect that is *part of your european intellectual history.* It wasn't german or Italian workers who were gunned down by fascists was it? it was churchill, that notorious lover of muslims and jews, so much so that he said that hitler was the worst thing to walk the earth and that he would put his lot in with the Jewish trotsky wasn't it?

oh wait, he said the opposite.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
british hypocrisy in full bloom here. corbyn's flash in the pan eh?

"For it may be that, unwittingly, they are inviting persecution — that they have been partly responsible for the antagonism from which they suffer."
The article continued: "The central fact which dominates the relations of Jew and non-Jew is that the Jew is 'different.' He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background. He refuses to be absorbed."
But it also urged support for Jews "suffering from persecutions as cruel, as relentless and as vindictive as any in their long history."
Geoffrey Alderman, a British historian who is a columnist for The Jewish Chronicle in London, said in an interview Sunday that "we have known about this for some time" because the article appears in a collection of Churchill's writings compiled by Martin Gilbert, Churchill's official biographer, that was published in the 1980s.
Alderman added: "It does not challenge" the prevailing view of Churchill as supportive of the Jews. "I think it's a flash in the pan."

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/world/europe/11iht-winston.4873300.html
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
but never mind that Sid. we all knew that if we could transport you back to 1933 you'd be more corageous than van der lubbe and bomb the reichstag, because you're so intransigently anti-nazi that you don't you know, just haughtily divert anything you disagree with on a forum into that channel, even if the two things are not comparable. you were there in Charlottesville taking a flight to do something, you were the main hero who gave the antifa a huge boost and kicked many proud boys heads in. your name will go down in history. frankly as a member of a people still suffering from fascist persecution I find your weaponisation offensive and distasteful in the extreme but never mind that, I'm used to it now.

ok, so we have a second ref. leave vote increases. you come out with the same arguments about how the ignorant snotty nosed northerners and general public are ignorant, only your clique of guardian reading mans who can't even take the grace to buy a good cologne they are that stingy and would rather make their women vomit in bed are the bearers of enlightened technocratic expertise. haranguing continues, the voices get shrill and even more RP, even more jargonistically legalistic by the dozen. most people are like sod this fucking country to hell with these numpties in charge, but you still have faith in the chaps. then to avoid yet another remain campaign causing no deal a third ref is called in 5 years time. leave vote tanks again. then?

you're so puffed up on yer own farts that you still can't concede your social circle fucked up, instead making a tasteless affectation that the dirty proles resisting the nazis ultimately deserved to die (in the reverse psychological sense, taking risks with their life and liberties!) because why should we be doing it unless it's done at the same time and we're willing to take on something a bit dangerous?

twat.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Different planes, really. I don't have a coherent ideological space that reconciles the two.

A lot of my politics is basically just reacting against whatever appalling position the extremists of either tribe have taken.

I disagree they are different planes though, once again you seem to take as granted that politics is a separate sphere to most people, which is where the problem starts.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
love how even jo swinson can't resist myKurdish allure. only sid viscus does. I'll get him eventually.

dj red terror
@BigGlitch1
More
absolutely bizarre. when we said this from 2013-16, they called us authoritarian communists with no respect for peoples democratic freedoms. bizarre. Do it again, Jo Swinson! bizarre.
1:52
BBC Politics
Verified account
@BBCPoliticsLib Dem leader @joswinson says David Cameron "cannot be forgiven" for calling the EU referendum http://bbc.in/30jgUNh #Brexit
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I disagree they are different planes though, once again you seem to take as granted that politics is a separate sphere to most people, which is where the problem starts.

I think you might be misreading me - I'm not saying politics is separate from everyday life, I'm saying politics is separated from activities like therapy. The former is public, relies on numbers, is enacted collectively, the latter is personal, middle class as fuck, expensive and enacted privately. They are separate spheres.

I think that psychotherapeutic diagnosis is fairly easy to apply to politics - you have to be willfully blind not to see the authoritarianism, reality denial, projection etc enacted in the political sphere but psychotherapeutic cure? That's a very different matter.

I don't think this is a great state of affairs either - I don't like the relatively cossetted nature of therapy practice, and I think new models have to emerge at some point 'cos of the various pressures around it. But I don't know what this would look like right now.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
so it's not really politics then. fair enough, I can't knock that. better a cynical centrist than a radical one.

Absolutely. Some pragmatism as well - who is likely to deliver good governance? None of these cunts.

Thus I list towards the centre. I know that has huge problems there, and I'd probably be less so if the revolutionary numpties weren't in the ascendant but there we go. I suspect the historical moment is against centrist politics and probably will remain so for a long time.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Absolutely. Some pragmatism as well - who is likely to deliver good governance? None of these cunts.

Thus I list towards the centre. I know that has huge problems there, and I'd probably be less so if the revolutionary numpties weren't in the ascendant but there we go. I suspect the historical moment is against centrist politics and probably will remain so for a long time.


I mean I don't see the revolutionary numpties being in the ascendent, or if they are, they have long since capitulated to worker ownership of shares in companies so that mans are paid out in dividends and not wages. which was a demand of maggie thatcher! Think its important to look not at what people say but they do. actions aren't words, after all.

as for politics being public and collective, sure, i'll grant that if we're saying its collective plutocracy
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I mean in command of the two big parties. Not the be all and end all of poltics I know, but that's who I usually spend my time knocking.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
but never mind that Sid. we all knew that if we could transport you back to 1933 you'd be more corageous than van der lubbe and bomb the reichstag, because you're so intransigently anti-nazi that you don't you know, just haughtily divert anything you disagree with on a forum into that channel, even if the two things are not comparable. you were there in Charlottesville taking a flight to do something, you were the main hero who gave the antifa a huge boost and kicked many proud boys heads in. your name will go down in history. frankly as a member of a people still suffering from fascist persecution I find your weaponisation offensive and distasteful in the extreme but never mind that, I'm used to it now.

What the fuck are you gibbering on about? When have I ever claimed to be some big hero?


Look, I get that "continually exploding bomb of omnidirectional hostility" is your thing, your schtick, but I'm clearly far from the only one here getting thoroughly fucking bored of it, and of your need to drag every single thread back to your handful of pet manias.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
what? you were the one making the nazi comparison, as if brexit in all its horridness is remotely even comparable.

nazi resisters would be massacred like partridges and often were, brexit resisters haven't even started resisting and even if they did at best there would be a moral panic. degree of scale. don't accuse me of annoying you when you come out with the most infantile comparison.

the fact is, remaniacs are enjoying brexit, not in the sense of haha we told you, but in the sense that they know they are losing their politically insulated status and have the tools of cultural production to say, you're not getting rid of us that easily! except they are dissolving easily. just like the brexiteer maniacs deep down realising that a random incoherent ideological hodgepodge is not going to give them the experience of running a country, both parties to this fight are self-interested politicos more concerned with bums and seats than the fait of me or you.

the most politically astute response is just to remain placidly indifferent if you're not going to do anything about it. But you can't accept this, instead seeing corbyn as a fifth columnist incarnate whereas your dislike for bo jo is, at best, an eccentric racist slightly pervy old english grandad who should be retired to a home for the elderly as he's too wobbly. again, difference of scale.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I'm taking a break from this forum as it's clear that my conduct notwithstanding people are willing to pummel me into feeling guilty even though some mans have been far more irreverent. whatever, white tears are a thing. not salty enough as the anatolian waters though, it must be said...
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
the most politically astute response is just to remain placidly indifferent if you're not going to do anything about it.


This is my position at the minute. I do find it interesting watching Cummings try and apply Silicon Valley disruption techniques via the medium of Downing Street. Surely a vein in his head will blow soon?

I remain deeply suspicious of Corbyn due to the foreign policy positions of those around him. Boris is more fundamentally evil though.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What kind of sophistry is this?

Keen says, even if prorogation unlawful, supreme court should not decide what happens next
Keen is now addressing the issue of “remedy” (ie, what might happen if the court rules against the government).
He says he contends that a determination from the court that prorogation was unlawful would suffice.
He says it should then be up to the government and parliament to decide how to respond; ie, it would not be for the court to decide what should happen next.
A judge asks how parliament can respond if it is not sitting.
Keen says in the first instance it would be for the government to respond.
So even if they lose they are gonna try and wriggle out of allowing parliament to sit. Have you ever seen such a slippery bunch of spivs as these scumbags?
 

version

Well-known member
It must be exhausting to be an Express reader. Apparently naming a room after Bercow is a "Remainer plot".

Brexit latest: Speaker to be honoured with ‘John Bercow Room’ in latest Remainer plot | OUTGOING Speaker of the House of Commons John Bercow could be honoured with his very own room paying homage to his efforts
 

Leo

Well-known member
hard to believe there's any chance of dialing back the outrage meter at this point (there or here). sadly, we might as well get used to it. there will always be small enclaves of legitimate discussion and debate, where facts take precedent over tribalism, but so much mass media is fucked beyond repair. reasoned, fact-based debate doesn't work as click bait, doubtful Fox News or the express will ever convert to a profitable "moderate/centrist" business model.

also, get off twitter.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Possibly even more notable is that European nations are stacked at the bottom. This continent knows its time at the top table is up. Apart from Italy, where radical political change is just...expected?

Apparently 70% of people think the Brexit Party has a clear Brexit policy. Wtf is wrong with this country? Instantly renders any opinion poll of dubious value.
 

version

Well-known member
You probably have to take into account China's grip on information and whether their citizens feel they can answer truthfully when looking at that 94% approval rating too.
 
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