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  1. #1
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    Default Things the Right get right

    Most ppl on here are lefties, I'd wager, as indeed am I, but I wonder if there are right-wing positions that you agree with, and conversely if there are leftist positions which are flawed or outright objectionable.

    I guess what inspired this thread was reading Lionel Shriver's hotly debated speech about cultural appropriation, which made me wonder if my rather knee-jerk disdain for the notion of 'PC gone mad' is well founded, or as wooly-minded as I generally take the anti-PC case to be.

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    I don't think I agree with any right wing policies that I can think of, though individual rightwingers might happen to believe things that I do too. Left-wing politics usually goes wrong in the international sphere, when some people of left-wing persuasion think they need to support horrible politicians simply because they claim to be socialists (while demonstrably not being), purely as a counterbalance to the right's support of horrible right-wing politicians (who usually claim to be advocates of liberal democracy).

    Lionel Shriver is an odious libertarian who conflates valid criticism of the offensive crap she and others write, with an attack upon her freedom to write said offensive crap. Did you read about the plot of her book The Mandibles? Dear Lord:

    http://www.vox.com/2016/9/14/1290494...itics-sombrero

    And as for her bizarre defence of Iggy Azalea...:

    'according to the Daily Beast Iggy Azalea committed “cultural crimes” by imitating African rap and speaking in a “blaccent.” '

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Thanks for this, I wasn't aware of this book's plot, although she talks about it in her speech. I'd be interested to hear her defence of the stuff about mexican immigrants, etc. I find her personally rather detestable, and I expected the comments section (it being the Guardian) to respond negatively to Shriver's speech, but the response seems overwhelmingly in favour of her position vis a vis cultural appropriation.

    It made me wonder if the rise of identity politics is a product of the left-wing that many on the left are increasingly wary of, or actively opposed to, rather than it being disdained strictly by the Clarksons and Hopkins that you'd expect.

    The Brexit vote seemed to suggest that the left is losing, at least in this country. I see it stated again and again that Labour has lost touch with the working classes, for example in its attitude towards immigration. So I figure either the left is getting things wrong, or the masses are by and large right wing (due to, in the case of those who are voting against their own self interest, ignorance and media manipulation).

    Plumping for the latter option means showing the contempt for the general population that the left is often accused of feeling ('Islington Socialists' etc.); OTOH, of course, the Tories don't get accused of being high-and-mighty in the same way, despite showing their contempt or lack of concern for the '99%' in almost 100% of their actions.

    Maybe I've just let CiF tories get to me.

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    I’m trying to keep myself out of political debates on dissensus, so sorry in advance if someone responds to these and I don’t get back to you (that’s not to say you shouldn’t respond, I’d be interested in people’s thoughts). These range from things that I think, to things that I suspect or have seen a good argument for but haven’t explored properly yet. I’m sure there’s more; these are just off the top of my head. In no particular order:

    Political correctness is anti-intellectual and anti-democratic

    Trade unions were too powerful in the 70’s

    Nuclear weapons are good

    Capitalism is good

    Globalisation is good

    Western military intervention can sometimes be a force for good

    Railways shouldn’t be renationalised

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    I haven't read the speech but I did read the frankly splenetic piece the Gruan published that a woman wrote in response to it (or rather, to the portion of it she heard before she marched out in ecstatic fury). It made me wonder if we'd hit 'peak Guardian', but I'm sure I've wondered that before. Every little shibboleth of the 21st century academic/journalistic capital-L Left was present and correct, right down to things being "problematic" and the sequence that starts "LGB..." containing no fewer than six letters.

    I think an awful lot of people - many or even most of whom are not, in fact, horrific reactionary bigots and may well have perfectly good progressive credentials - are getting put off by the sanctimony, the weaponized victimhood and, frankly, the sheer unpleasantness that characterizes this sort of discourse. And the Guardian piece about Shriver's speech epitomized this, its every sentence blazing with demonstrative sanctimony.

    On the subject cultural appropriation in particular: I think it's obvious that it's a real thing, or at least can be, but over the last five or ten years there have been so many high-profile alleged cases that were just so obviously spurious, in fact quite transparently a case of groups of white people trying to outdo each other in acts of ostentatious right-on-ness, that these days it's safer to assume any supposed instance is probably bollocks unless there is good reason to assume otherwise.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

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    "A neo-conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality." -- Irving Kristol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I haven't read the speech
    I think you have to read the speech to understand just how enervating it is, and (to my mind) why it would make someone disgusted enough to walk out.

    Just because some cases of cultural appropriation were spurious, doesn't mean anything other than some cases were spurious. Which is the point that LS fails to understand. The idea that cases of cultural appropriation are mostly brought up by white people is also doublethink of the highest order. Might as well start with mentioning that the person who complained about Shriver is - not white?
    Last edited by baboon2004; 16-09-2016 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsey View Post
    cultural appropriation

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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment View Post
    This guy's on a roll that's for sure.

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    Say what you like, they have excellent taste in porn:

    Ted Cruz commemorates 9/11 by endorsing stepmom-themed hardcore porn video.


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  12. #12
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    They also have a way with memorable political criticism. First thing I've read in the papers for a while that made me do a double take (because almost nothing is surprising any longer):

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...st-theresa-may

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