DOOM, or The Official 2016 US Election Thread

craner

Beast of Burden
Fascism is a military, war ideology. There is no evidence Trump has this yet. The opposite, in fact.
 

droid

Well-known member
Fascism is a military, war ideology. There is no evidence Trump has this yet. The opposite, in fact.

Thats a strangely narrow & misguided definition of fascism - and there's plenty of evidence to suggest Trump will not shy away from war - just not within the context we're familiar with. Not to hard to see a US abandonment of Europe to Russia with rapacious US action in the middle east and wider conflict with China.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
I think he ticks all of the boxes for fascism myself. Radical militant nationalism, demonisation of others based on ethnic/racial lines, mythologising the revitalisation of nation, open willingness to use violence to achieve political aims...

Add to this the disdain the Trumpians show for (representative) democracy and its institutions.
 

luka

Well-known member
I've seen craners library. Lots of books on fascism. 50% of books in his library are about fascism. He loves it.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Fascism is a military, war ideology. There is no evidence Trump has this yet. The opposite, in fact.

One of the key elements of fascism is the glorification of violence per se - of the four textbook cases of fascism (Nazi-Germany, Japan, Franco-Spain, Mussolini's Italy) Franco wasn't keen on military action outside of Spain, and Mussolini's army was a military debacle if there ever was one.

Use of violence for political gains, yes, absolutely. Military force in interstate conflict - not necessarily. Pseudo-fascist measures against the Trumpian enemies within the US borders - very likely.
 
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droid

Well-known member
One of the key elements of fascism is the glorification of violence per se - of the four textbook cases of fascism (Nazi-Germany, Japan, Franco-Spain, Mussolini's Italy) Franco wasn't keen on military action outside of Spain, and Mussolini's army was a military debacle if there ever was one.

Use of violence for political gains, yes, absolutely. Military force in interstate conflict - not necessarily. Pseudo-fascist measures against the Trumpian enemies within the US borders - very likely.

He's talking about militaristic symbolism and the army as spear head of the will of the volk, embodied by its ultimate leader (I think).
 

firefinga

Well-known member
The major difference between the old hardcore Tea Party people and the current Trumptons is that the Tea Party were Constitutional Originalists, with lots of cranky hanger-ons. The Trump Crowd are those hangers, plus the racists, the Rust Belt ex-Democrat whites, the young alt-right, the anti-PC women, the Clinton-haters...etc. Trump and this lot have no interest in the intricacies of the Constitution and its many amendments. They believe in the Strong Man who can Make America Great Again. It's not fascism, but it's a strain of authoritarianism that has much in common with the current Russian set-up. Therefore, how robust are the Founding Fathers? Which the Tea Party revere, but Trump has no respect or tome for?

Very good assessment. But then, a gloomy one too bc the genie of proto-fascism/authoritarianism is out of the bottle.The Tea Party were already breaking with the old GOP consensus (play the system, but stay within it), whereas the Trumpians appear to demand a new system, one built by their rules. A lot fo the right wing populist parties in Europe are watching this very closely.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Trump is kind of anti-war. Isolationist, protectionist. Hillary much more Hawkish on Russia. All the GOP foreign policy establishment on her side; the majority of neoconservatives voting for her, #nevertrump, National Review, Weekly Standard, Commentary, all anti-Trump
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Fascism is a military, war ideology. There is no evidence Trump has this yet. The opposite, in fact.

It would mean the end of humanitarian/"humanitarian" (delete applicable to taste) intervention, sure. OTOH, this is a man who is openly fascinated with - at times, seemingly all but aroused by - nuclear weapons, without having the slightest clue about the doctrine of weapon possession for the purpose of deterrence.

Has anyone got any idea where Trump stands on Israel and Saudi Arabia, out of interest? Not that I'm expecting him to have anything approaching a consistent position.
 

droid

Well-known member
Im gonna go all in and declare Nevada and Florida for Clinton, North Carolina close, but final polls leaning towards Trump.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Im gonna go all in and declare Nevada and Florida for Clinton, North Carolina close, but final polls leaning towards Trump.

Nevada had a considerabl influx of Hispanics the last couple of years - so it's not unlikely the "Bad Hombres" talk will cost him that one. Hopefully so.
 

Leo

Well-known member
some wise pundits, even from the GOP, predicting clinton poised to finish in the 330-360 electoral vote range. while i certainly hope she kicks his ass to that degree, it just feels like a closer race. could be an illusion, romney campaign was convinced they had surged at the end, had the momentum, etc., and were genuinely shocked when obama won with 332 electoral votes and a 4% margin.

btw, remind me to never again go on Facebook during any future presidential election year. good lord, the level of stupidity (on both right and left), verbose uneducated opining and pigheadedness is depressing. unlike here. :)
 

firefinga

Well-known member
btw, remind me to never again go on Facebook during any future presidential election year. good lord, the level of stupidity (on both right and left), verbose uneducated opining and pigheadedness is depressing. unlike here. :)

Well, it's FarceBook - what did u expect? :p
 

Leo

Well-known member
the dow up 300 points at 11:00 am ET the day after comey's second announcement. considering financial experts have predicted a steep downturn if trump wins, it appears the market is speaking in anticipation.
 
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