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Thread: ""Post Truth" politics"

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slothrop View Post
    I've recently found out that he was actually - pre name change - the annoying attention seeking kid from a couple of years below me at school. Which is a strange mix of mindblowingly weird and totally plausible in retrospect.

    Also, a few schoolfriends on Facebook are now trying to remember whether he was one of the people who got put upside-down in the bin in the sixth form common room, and wondering how much influence it might have had on his subsequent path in life if he was.
    Oh dear god, let this be true - and if it is, let there be photos.

  2. #17
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    Does this mean he could, in some very indirect way, be Slothrop's fault?

    Nice one, mate. No really, way to go there.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

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  4. #18
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    Alt history alert!

  5. #19
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    This is a good tweet from an insightful twitter thread by a journalist who's been writing about Philipines.
    Quote Originally Posted by @adrianchen
    6/ The "unhinged populist" style is perfectly suited for today's media ecosystem; it plays traditional + social media against each other.
    https://twitter.com/AdrianChen/statu...23543611723777
    or, as some smart-ass loser put it last week:
    "!We took Trump literally but not seriously, his supporters took him seriously not literally!"

  6. #20
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    This is a pretty interesting take too:

    Quote Originally Posted by the future
    In China, that foundation of reality is eroded alongside trust in institutions previously tasked with upholding the truth. Contrary to popular sentiment in the US, Chinese readers donít blindly trust the state-run media. Rather, they distrust it so much that they donít trust any form of media, instead putting their faith in what their friends and family tell them. No institution is trusted enough to act as a definitive fact-checker, and so itís easy for misinformation to proliferate unchecked.
    https://medium.com/@xuhulk/watching-...e-97a0d66bdcfe

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  8. #21
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    One could as well post the following in the Trump thread or the election 2016 doom thread, but also here:

    It's also ironic that the regime of neoliberalism has corrupted (western) societies to the extent that now even several of the main propagandists of this said regime (conservative parties, lapsed former "social" democratic parites, cancerous media tycoons like Murdoch) are being swept away by products of (the permanent crisis produced by) neoliberalism, namley the populists and their disgruntled supporters.

    The really said part is, we possibly get something even worse in return - authoritarian or downright fascist regimes instead of free market fundamentalism.
    Last edited by firefinga; 22-11-2016 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    One could as well post the following in the Trump thread or the election 2016 doom thread, but also here:

    It's also ironic that the regime of neoliberalism has corrupted (western) societies to the extent that now even several of the main propagandists of this said regime (conservative parties, lapsed former "social" democratic parites, cancerous media tycoons like Murdoch) are being swept away by products of (the permanent crisis produced by) neoliberalism, namley the populists and their disgruntled supporters.

    The really said part is, we possibly get something even worse in return - authoritarian or downright fascist regimes instead of free market fundamentalism.
    I know what you're saying, and I agree that the tensions that we're seeing are remarkable, but I'd be cautious about what you say has been swept away. Conservative parties still have an awful lot of power, in countries like the UK and Spain (not to mention America - I think the demise of the trad Republicans has been much overstated), and the Murdochs of this world are stronger than ever, surely (he got exactly what he wanted with Brexit)? Obviously social democratic parties are dying everywhere, that's very true, hollowed-out hosts slowly dying after being stripped bare of all their original function from inside (Blair as zombie wasp?).

    There is an obvious surface tension between nationalist fascism and neoliberalism, but I would imagine an accommodation between these two centres of power is not too far away. Neither of them have much of a problem with making the rich yet richer. Trump is doubtful to follow through on many of his promises to poor people, once he's embroiled in the political system, for example. He recognised the need for populist rhetoric, but so far nothing in actuality has changed structurally - his history shows him to be as neoliberal as the best of them.

    This is interesting and I think the conclusion is right: https://www.opendemocracy.net/john-w...ot-its-failure
    "Fulfilment of the neoliberal transformation to unregulated capitalism is incompatible with electoral democracy. A polity can have one or the other, but not both. The dark genius of Donald Trump lies in following this incompatibility to its logical conclusion — if his brand of capitalism and electoral democracy conflict, it is democracy that will be undermined."
    Last edited by baboon2004; 22-11-2016 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #23

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    There's a deep antipathy between nationalist fascism and liberal capitalism, it's a historic mistake to associate or conflate them, it was made in the 30s by the Communists and led to catastrophe.

  11. #24
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    Capitalism and fascism get on just fine. The ideal worker is a captive one.

  12. #25
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    The truth must be spoken with a view to the results it will produce in the sphere of action. As a specimen
    of a truth from which no results, or the wrong ones, follow, we can cite the widespread view that bad
    conditions prevail in a number of countries as a result of barbarism. In this view, Fascism is a wave of
    barbarism which has descended upon some countries with the elemental force of a natural phenomenon.

    According to this view, Fascism is a new, third power beside (and above) capitalism and socialism;
    not only the socialist movement but capitalism as well might have survived without the intervention of
    Fascism. And so on. This is, of course, a Fascist claim; to accede to it is a capitulation to Fascism.
    Fascism is a historic phase of capitalism; in this sense it is something new and at the same time old.
    In Fascist countries capitalism continues to exist, but only in the form of Fascism; and Fascism can be
    combated as capitalism alone, as the nakedest, most shameless, most oppressive, and most treacherous
    form of capitalism.


    But how can anyone tell the truth about Fascism, unless he is willing to speak out against capitalism,
    which brings it forth? What will be the practical results of such truth?

    Those who are against Fascism without being against capitalism, who lament over the barbarism
    that comes out of barbarism, are like people who wish to eat their veal without slaughtering the calf.
    They are willing to eat the calf, but they dislike the sight of blood. They are easily satisfied if the butcher
    washes his hands before weighing the meat. They are not against the property relations which engender
    barbarism; they are only against barbarism itself. They raise their voices against barbarism, and they
    do so in countries where precisely the same property relations prevail, but where the butchers wash
    their hands before weighing the meat.
    ...

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  14. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    The dark genius of Donald Trump
    From one myopic extreme to the next ...

  15. #27

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    On the subject of fascism and Richard Spencer, Ross Douthat tweeted the following yesterday:

    1. Last thought on Spencer: One issue is that Trumpism rose so suddenly that there's no clear intellectual substructure for his populism.
    2. There's no equivalent of, say, Eric Zemmour in France or Thilo Sarrazin in Germany. Bannon is an operator, not a self-conscious theorist.
    3. So there's an opening for someone like Spencer to say, "look at me, I'm the Snazzy Fascist AND the Mind of Trumpism!"
    4. But he isn't. Go profile Steve Sailer or Mickey Kaus or the Journal of American Greatness guys instead.
    I'm not sure about his recommendations, but I think the rest of it is largely true. Spencer is (as Douthat says elsewhere) a clever troll, and one who is not shy about taking the 15 minutes of fame offered to him by the press.

  16. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    From one myopic extreme to the next ...
    not the words i would have chosen either (fwiw i agree that the talk of idiot and genius is equally tiresome), but i think that's missing the main point.
    Last edited by baboon2004; 22-11-2016 at 08:21 PM.

  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    There's a deep antipathy between nationalist fascism and liberal capitalism, it's a historic mistake to associate or conflate them, it was made in the 30s by the Communists and led to catastrophe.
    i temporarily forgot that the Spanish Civil War was fought between Franco and the liberal capitalists

    Liberal capitalism is only a temporary and pragmatic compromise anyways; it's not an ideology. The committed capitalist will soon abandon liberal principles as quickly as he adopted them, if it suits
    Last edited by baboon2004; 22-11-2016 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #30

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    Quite possibly, although I think it reflects the general tenor of hysterical pessimism into which the media has now fallen.

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