It's great when you're straight

Seriously considering reading Peterson's book now:

It's funny, because crabs are a bit like lobsters, see?

Who says this guy is humourless?!

What's funny is I can see JP picturing himself as a sort of intellectual Nelson Muntz, pointing at the Post Modern MarxiFemiNazis and going Haw Haw. And behind it all, damage disguised.

luka said:

everyone ive seen have it has come back starry eyed talking of mayan temples and chinese spirit guardians and matrixes of pure light except mr tea who started talking about the sausage casserole he was going to cook that night. only man so straight even dmt cant make him weird.

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I am presently a walking chiché of universal oneness and inner truth after a lot of ayahausca recently. Would have been quite sceptical of psychedelic potential but not any more haha. Without a doubt one the best things I have ever done. Have begun to resolve all sorts and currently day two into really knocking a 16 year nicotine habit.

Cocaine has taken another serious rise here in the last few years. Very mainstream and dominant again, you can definitely feel the difference of vibe in a night out. Not for the better really, is it? And shame too as the pills, etc, have rarely been as good as they are today.

Definitely do not want to reignite something from earlier in the thread but regarding 'male suicide crisis'. Women still tend to be over represented in cases of depression, self harm, etc, however, its appears, there are factors leading to men using more effective means in the final act. The 'epidemic' wouldn't look quite so gendered if 'attempts' were taken along side. I see how some of the commentary around this became attractive to people but it's dodgy as fuck.

Putting your political hiatus to good use then?

Sectionfive said:

Definitely do not want to reignite something from earlier in the thread but regarding 'male suicide crisis'. Women still tend to be over represented in cases of depression, self harm, etc, however, its appears, there are factors leading to men using more effective means in the final act. The 'epidemic' wouldn't look quite so gendered if 'attempts' were taken along side. I see how some of the commentary around this became attractive to people but it's dodgy as fuck.

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Well I suppose it depends where you draw the line between a bona fide attempt and a 'cry for help' or other non-fatal instance of self-harm. But in any case, the asymmetry is so pronounced that I doubt that most of it can be put down to women just being a bit rubbish at suicide, and I don't think you have to be an MRA loony to acknowledge that (in b4 benny/luka with 'but it probably helps, lololol').

Also, if the dominant factor here is that men are more reluctant to seek help when things start going tits up, it stands to reason that rates of depression/self-harm among men are going to be under-reported relative to women.

The other side of it, as described extensively by cwmbran before everything got a bit shouty and weird, is that the 'help' available is often useless, even when it is available. It's surely not hard to see that several people saying "Men kill themselves because patriarchy makes them too proud and stupid to seek help" might antagonise someone who's lost four male friends to suicide after they all repeatedly asked for help and were given totally inadequate or inappropriate treatment. If the main cause of the gender disparity in suicide were a willingness to seek help, that would imply thousands of suicidal women were being saved by the jolly old NHS every year - whereas a woman turning up at a walk-in centre and saying "I'm gonna kill myself, help me" is presumably no more likely to find that it does her any good than cwmbran (or his late friends) found it. I mean, I don't doubt that it is *a* cause, but probably by no means the only cause.

I think the focus just on a male suicide crisis and even factoring in attempted suicides is misleading. What about all those that suffer, do not suicide or attempt it and just continue suffering all their lives? Is it possible that women are more conditioned to withstand misery than men, to accept their lot?

Edit: all im really saying is, lets not take things at face value.

Fragile Masculinity Syndrome

FMS: check yourself, lads
Fragile Masculinity: Symptoms, Diagnosis, and Treatment
and i'm not talking about prostatism 🔫

It's multiple and extremely complex issues at play but masculinity informs and influences so much that it is a nonsense to suggest it wouldn't be a factor in areas of self perception and metal health that go much beyond likelihood of seeking help, etc.

More than anything though I just wanted to underline the real unlikelihood of media silence or otherwise regarding a male suicide 'epidemic'. The suggestion of some sort blackout around men's health echoes MRA and other conservative tactics. Often people promulgating this are much more invested the notion there is a conspiracy than the alleged epidemic itself.

We should have a designated day every week when we communicate only in memes.

luka said:

not much chance of being sceptical in the face of that.

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I sort of deliberately didn't do a whole lot of research beforehand so as to avoid expectations influencing matters and getting out of my comfort zone was sort of central to whatever intentions I allowed myself. The retreat was a mix of god tier drug taking and psychotherapy rather than the strictly shamanistic South American side of things that would be better known. I can honestly ramble at length now about the whole thing but I feel brand new with all sorts of perceptions completely changed, ego considerably stripped away and a more positive inner voice has emerged in away that I honestly didn't believe possible. Im whacked out on serotonin for another two weeks as well which is nice

I've noticed something relevant to this thread actually since I've been back. In speaking to people they are quite interested in the experience but almost all expressed apprehension based on past, less than happy, experience with lsd, mushrooms, etc. After about the fifth person saying this I realised no one had really told me this before, about not entirely enjoying themselves. Seems everyone is going around under the impression that others are having fun, handling what comes, while they alone encounter the fear and demons. We all know about bad trips of course but there seems to be a collective silence around it too that surely breeds all sorts of issues.

I think there's always that potential because (as my mate Satan said): 'The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven'

But like luka said I think people don't do these things 'properly' - they take acid in a field somewhere or under a bridge while also drinking loads of beer, or they run into some traumatic event while tripping or whatever

Mind you my mate was bang into mushrooms and that all stopped when he did them once and saw/met loads of people he knew to be dead