Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: Is voting for the far-right a form of gambling?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    23

    Default Is voting for the far-right a form of gambling?

    This might be incoherent or bleeding obvious, it's just some observations tied together to make one big generalisation. I'm always very interested in thoughtful feedback https://infinite-coincidence.com/201...m-of-gambling/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    11,118

    Default

    i suppose if i were you id contribute to the forum a bit more and chill out with the self-promotion. just saying like.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to luka For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    i suppose if i were you id contribute to the forum a bit more and chill out with the self-promotion. just saying like.
    Fair point well made.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    11,118

    Default

    Thanks for listening. Welcome aboard etc

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to luka For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    702

    Default

    While there are several motives for voting for right wing parties, and skimming through your link I'd say it's more referring to the right wing populists (of course we have to deal with blurry lines here) of late, I wouldn't call it "gambling". Yes, there are clearly many people pretty desperate out there voting for those populists simply bc they have the impression their needs are not being met by any other parties/politicians right now - the (in)famous "deplorables". They might be naive to some extent, or clearly vote for the "lesser evil", at least according to their personal situation.

    But a great deal of those populists' voters are negative, fear-ridden people with a basically destructive mindset.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    The Fear - Dublin
    Posts
    6,206

    Default

    This seems as good a thread to take the temperature of national populism.

    Austrian rejection of Hofer, Dutch rejection of Wilders, AFD falling to pieces in Germany, Le Pen, I dont think will succeed in France.

    Some of these have been close, but Brexit/Trump seem to be outliers pushed over the line by some fairly special circumstances.

    Centrists and the EU have a chance now to get their shit together before the climate crisis really hits. Defeating fascism means pulling the centre to the left, and that falls to all of us.

    Brits need to hold their nose and vote for labour and greens despite the legitimate concerns over both.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    702

    Default

    Especially the Trump victory and the following 24-7 ongoing show of incompetence *might* have deterred some people in the Netherlands actually voting for Wilders, a very similar type to Trump (and the other populists).

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firefinga View Post
    Especially the Trump victory and the following 24-7 ongoing show of incompetence *might* have deterred some people in the Netherlands actually voting for Wilders, a very similar type to Trump (and the other populists).
    May I point out that Wilders actually won some extra seats last election? And that the party who got the most votes (VVD) had been running a campaign similar of that of Wilders. "@AkwugoEmejulu: Wilders was beaten into 3rd place because his xenophobic platform was cynically co-opted by mainline parties". I think it's quite worrying that we have set the bar so low.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yyaldrin View Post
    May I point out that Wilders actually won some extra seats last election?
    Well, but he was supposed to win the majority. All the right wing cheerleaders were screaming it from their virtual rooftops (=youtube, twitter etc), and the media outlets were reporting that possibility as well.

    Of course, the "but he won some extra seats" argument was quickly used by the aforementioned cheerleaders after their utter disappointment The self-proclaimed goal of getting the majority wasn't met by a far margin, that's why the result could very well be interpreted as an actual defeat.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    697

    Default

    Mark Rutte, leader of the VVD, published this in one of the biggest newspapers just before the elections:

    To all Dutchmen,

    There's something wrong with our country. How is it possible that we, as a country, are so wealthy, but that some people behave so poorly? People who set the tone in our country more and more. Who are willing to overthrow everything we, the Netherlands, have worked so hard for. We can't let that happen!
    Most people have good will. The silent majority. We want the best for our country. We work hard, help one another, and think the Netherlands are quite a cool country. But we do worry about the way we treat one another. Sometimes it seems like no-one behaves normally anymore.

    You probably recognise it. People seem to behave more and more anti-socially. In traffic, in public transport, and in the streets. Who think they always have right of way. Who dump their garbage on the street. Who spit at conductors. Who hang around in groups and bully people, threaten them or even assault them. Not normal.
    We feel increasingly uneasy when people abuse our freedom to undermine our country, even though they came to our country for that freedom. People who refuse to adapt, dislike our traditions and reject our values. Who harrass gays, cat-call women in short skirts, or call normal Dutchmen racist. I understand it all too well when people think: if you reject our country in such a fundamental manner, I'd rather have you leave. Because I feel the same. Behave normally or leave.

    Never should we accept this behaviour as normal in our country. The solution is not, to lump together groups of people, to insult them, or to simply deport whole groups of people. We can't build a society like that. The solution is mainly a matter of mentality. We should continu to make clear what is and what is not normal in this country. We have to defend our values actively.
    For in the Netherlands, it's normal to shake hands and treat one another like equals. It is normal not to assault first-aid helpers. To treat teachers with respect and to not bully people with vlogs. It is normal to work for your money and try to make the best out of your life. To help one another when things are rough and hug people when times are tough. It is normal to do your best and not to walk away from your problems. That you listen to others. Rather than yell if you disagree with someone.

    The near future will decide our country's direction. We only need to answer one question: what kind of country do we want to be?

    Let us fight for being able to feel at home in our beautiful country. Let us make clear what is normal and what is not. I'm sure we can do that. That we can re´nforce what we made together thus far. You, I, all of us. Let us co÷perate to improve our country even better. Because we really are a really cool country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Would you?

    Mark Rutte
    I don't even know where to start...

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    23

    Default

    I admire people's optimism. I hope it is that and not cpmplacency after Austria and Holland. Droid is definitely right aboit the climate, the great unmentionable in any election campaign. Strangely Le Pen has apparently, quietly, moved away from outright denial, which I thought was fulcral to the whole global far-right agenda, it's possibly she's moving into more eco-entho-nationalism but it's too depressing to find out more about.

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    The Fear - Dublin
    Posts
    6,206

    Default

    Its not optimism, per se, rather an attempt at a realistic look at things. Its important not to let pessimism overwhelm. The world is complex and many of the factors that have enabled ethno-nationalism also work against it.

    This is not the great global wave of fascism, not yet anyway.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    8,024

    Default

    How normotic. Normal to shake hands and not accuse Dutchmen of racism - wtf.

    Quote Originally Posted by yyaldrin View Post
    Mark Rutte, leader of the VVD, published this in one of the biggest newspapers just before the elections:



    I don't even know where to start...

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    لندورا
    Posts
    2,685

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    How normotic. Normal to shake hands and not accuse Dutchmen of racism - wtf.
    normotic - my new word for the day

    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Its not optimism, per se, rather an attempt at a realistic look at things. Its important not to let pessimism overwhelm. The world is complex and many of the factors that have enabled ethno-nationalism also work against it.

    This is not the great global wave of fascism, not yet anyway.
    How is rightism different fundamentally from "bad faith"? You believe the worst of everybody, so you vote (or act) pessimistically, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    And socialism is good faith - you believe that humans can work together etc.
    Simple positivity and negativeness, or is there a neat counter argument from the rightist perspective?

    (Droid, obvs must be exceptional in his utterly pessimistic worldview)

    I suppose that going back to the question at hand, it's nothing intrinsic about the far-right that makes voting for them a gamble, it's just that they are presenting themselves as a radical departure from the establishment, thus a leap into the unknown, so that's a gamble? but the same could be said for Corbyn, doesnĺt seem to help much though. How come Labour can't seem to successfully harness "populism"?

    also, can the left be Nationalist (as suggested by Adam Curtis at his talk the other day)? Is that what it needs to get it's shit back together?

    also Kingsnorth seems to be steering an environmentalism towards fascism, wtf's up with that?

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    11,118

    Default

    There's always been a strong link between the far right and environmentalism

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •