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Thread: The Matrix vs Ghostbusters

  1. #16
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    was just saying to mistersloane on facebook that this film drilled itself very very deep into the collective unconscious. it really did operate as myth. took hold on thát level. still exerts a huge pull as myth.

    in that sense it's by far and away thr most important film since terminator and arguably even star wars.

    i dont think you can understate the extent to which it's embedded itself in the psyche

  2. #17
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    although i love the film i dont by any means consider it's
    impact to be wholly or even predominantly benevolent.
    it radically weakened our sense of the realness of reality and replaced it with precisely nothing,
    or at best, pasted a kind of regressive superhero/messiah fantasy on top.

  3. #18
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    one of my rules is that no matter how unmoored i become, no matter how far i float into space i will always treat the game as if it were real. that even if it is not real (and im by no means convinced that it is), it is crucial to treat it as real. to treat other people as real. to consider suffering as the greatest wrong and causing suffering as the greatest evil, not as a video game in which all of the rules can be broken with impunity.

  4. #19
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    whats any of that guna mean to you lot? absolutely fuck all. but dont mind me im just thinking out loud
    and this is the place im accustomed to doing that in.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    whats any of that guna mean to you lot? absolutely fuck all. but dont mind me im just thinking out loud
    and this is the place im accustomed to doing that in.
    Of course it's all real. The refutation is obvious. "it's all a simulation" is another manifestation of the computational fallacy, along with strong AI & mind uploading, but with the additional physical hurdle of the quantum Hall effect where each additional particle in the system applies intractable computational overheads. The only way to do it is to do it. And that's just bare, dark gravel reality, even before anything wakes up in here.

  6. #21
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    im not interested in computers especially. i never thought im stuck in a video game.

  7. #22
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    but just to be socialable whats the computational fallacy? ive never heard of it

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    but just to be socialable whats the computational fallacy? ive never heard of it
    You get out of your depth very quickly with this stuff, don't you?
    It's a common cast of mind to believe that any state of matter can necessarily be computed - either by something like massively parallel simulation or by reduction to an algorithm. Our computers are just that good, supposedly. However, the non-locality of spacetime and lack of granularity at the lowest scales (how do you compute the behaviour of something that refuses either to be in some position at a given velocity, or at some velocity in a given position). It's all of that, which would be a problem for a single, solitary electron, but scaled up to the cosmos...?

    It literally does not compute. A simulation could never be made convincing to anyone with something as simple as a microscope or even basic curiosity beyond what he immediately encounters. It'd be glitched to fuck in a way that reality is not. The Matrix does nod to this though, to its credit.

    Similarly, it seems unlikely that mind can be computed - reduced to an algorithm or manifested in silico. It's a 3.5 billion year old ball of cunning and biochemical who really knows what, computationists are going to really have to sharpen their pencils to get the measure of that one. Some recent research has suggested that ideas may be broadcast in the mind by actual viruslike particles that 'infect' neurons - where do you even begin with stuff like that going on?

    There’s this gene, Arc, active in our neurons. It’s essential for cognition and longterm memory in mammals; knockout mice who lack it can’t remember from one day to the next where they left the cheese. It looks and acts an awful lot like something called a gag a “group-specific antigen”, something which codes for the core structural proteins of retroviruses. Like a gag, Arc codes for a protein that assembles into capsids (basically, shuttles containing messenger RNA). These accumulate in the dendrites, cross the synaptic junction in little vesicles: a payload from one neuron to another.

    Pastuzyn et al, of the University of Utah, have just shown that Arc is literally an infection: a tamed, repurposed virus that infected us a few hundred million years ago. Apparently it looks an awful lot like HIV. Pastuzyn et al speculate that Arc “may mediate intercellular signaling to control synaptic function”.

    Memory is a virus. Or at least, memory depends on one.


    Which implies that a disease could spread around the brain through the act of thinking.

    It's not important though, as you were.
    Last edited by HMGovt; 03-09-2018 at 12:38 AM.

  9. #24
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    has it occurred to you that i might be approaching this stuff from a different angle?

  10. #25
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    to put it simply, you read new scientist and 'think' about things. that's legitimate and i dont intend to belittle you for it. it's what you enjoy and it's how you operate. i don't do that. for me it's all experiential. i intersect with god consciousness and i receive the multi-dimensional download packets.
    im not saying it's better. it's just a different way of working.
    you do you bro.

  11. #26
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    I might have mentioned this in another thread but I read somewhere that in an early draft of the screenplay, the machines were supposed to have enslaved humanity not to exploit our bodies as an energy resource, but to exploit our minds as a computational resource by linking up billions of human brains into an enormous hypercomputer, a sort of neural internet. Maybe this was intended as a reference to the work by Roger Penrose and others that suggests human brains actually work on a quantum level and are capable of performing information processing in a way that’s impossible, even in principle, for classical computers (i.e. Turing machines).

    Why they would do this I don’t know, but maybe it’s for fundamentally the same reasons humans build things like radio telescopes, space probes and hadron colliders.

    Anyway I thought it was a really intriguing concept and certainly far more interesting (and plausible) than the frankly braindead idea of using humans as batteries, which the Wachowskis apparently settled on because they thought audiences would be confused by the human-supercomputer idea. And which is so stupid it could be demolished in ten seconds by anyone who passed GCSE physics.
    Last edited by Mr. Tea; 03-09-2018 at 10:59 AM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMGovt View Post
    There’s this gene, Arc, active in our neurons. It’s essential for cognition and longterm memory in mammals; knockout mice who lack it can’t remember from one day to the next where they left the cheese. It looks and acts an awful lot like something called a gag a “group-specific antigen”, something which codes for the core structural proteins of retroviruses. Like a gag, Arc codes for a protein that assembles into capsids (basically, shuttles containing messenger RNA). These accumulate in the dendrites, cross the synaptic junction in little vesicles: a payload from one neuron to another.

    Pastuzyn et al, of the University of Utah, have just shown that Arc is literally an infection: a tamed, repurposed virus that infected us a few hundred million years ago. Apparently it looks an awful lot like HIV. Pastuzyn et al speculate that Arc “may mediate intercellular signaling to control synaptic function”.

    Memory is a virus. Or at least, memory depends on one.
    Yeah, I remember reading about this research when it first came out. Amazing stuff. Only a whisker away from Burroughs's language-as-a-virus stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMGovt View Post
    Which implies that a disease could spread around the brain through the act of thinking.
    Heh, yeah, and I bet there's been a ton of really bad cyberpunk sci-fi about humans getting literally infected by computer viruses and all of that.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    to put it simply, you read new scientist and 'think' about things.
    luka interacting with hmg in this thread like

    manoflogic.jpg
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  15. #29
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    our jurisdictions dont overlap i dont know what hes worrying about.
    i dont want to stop him reading new scientist and watching brian cox documentaries about quantum physics.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    our jurisdictions dont overlap i dont know what hes worrying about.
    i dont want to stop him reading new scientist and watching brian cox documentaries about quantum physics.
    I stopped reading New Scientist around 2003 when they cravenly backed the Iraq War. Defanged, centrist, science LARPing. It was all downhill after the Daedalus column moved from NS to Nature.

    There’s a sociology of the world of scientists like of everything else. This is a cause of much confusion about biology and ideas of evolution. You think you’ve been given objective truth, but the minds of biologists are in general very limited. The truth is the biggest minds always went for physics among the sciences, then maybe chemistry. Until recently but even now biology gives little opportunity for the kind of thinking that penetrates mystery of nature, the kind of insight into physical relations that attracts the best scientific minds. They’ve been on the whole a half-and-half group in history.

    Schopenhauer refers with contempt to the people who have their “catalogues of monkeys” and think they understand nature. Darwin himself, Nietzsche called him a petty mind, the kind of calculator who likes to collect many small facts and synthesize some clumsy theory. The theory is clumsy and full of holes. This is the biggest reason Creationists, who are also wrong, have been able to challenge it, where they were never able to challenge theoretical physics. There is much dishonesty and stupidity among scientists and biologists when they talk about evolution and life (and everything else).

    It's fine Luka, it's good and honourable that you know your limitations. You're happy to dwell in delusion, capering monkeylike with the machine elves. Meanwhile... life thunders blissful towards death, in a stampede, as the plates grind and convulse in the vasty deep.
    Last edited by HMGovt; 03-09-2018 at 10:10 PM.

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