pattycakes_

Can turn naughty

opening with a very jaco sounding bass introspection but quickly disrupted by ye olde psyche organ freak. the bass giving us a layer of repetition to rely on. organ shyly sneaks back in for a second taste and slinks back out just as quick. sparse perc from Mtume coupled with a little tap on the snare and very occasional kick to anchor this floating cloud of dreamlike serenity. never heard anything else like this from the miles catalog. oh and now we're putting the bass through a delay? is this a composition or a jam? hard to tell. blues guitar teasing it's way in at first and then spindling it's way through the skyscape with delicious arps that wouldn't sound out of place on a curtis mayfield production. who's fucking around with the tape delay? in a way it's cool to keep us alert, but at the same time i wouldn't mind drifting off down river with the rest of the band. drums lifting up now. a 2nd guitar comes in all gronky, fuzzed and phazed. everything builds, a low key acid peak. overdriven tape delay slowly screeches in like a flock of horny bats, intensifies and what do you know, it's all over. major thumbs up.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
perfect fodder for the likes of bonobo or four tet to lazily sample and turn into the next artisanal coffee shop soundtrack hit
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IoD3vBY_QT8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Patty, go w/ this prompt

rapid fire reply. diddy channeling his inner james brown. getting hype as i type. that hi hat loop is doing a lot. punching on the 4 is force effective. dissonant keys only adding to the majestic chaos. feels like a constant build. now diddy's telling us about a christmas gift from his ma. oh snap, james brown check. not tired, not ready to go. love the baritone sax adding funky intrigue throughout. 🔥
 
Last edited:

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the existence of a tune is generally not a bad thing
tbc I'm not saying it is - I'm not one if those people (if they even exist) who is uniformly against pop hooks or tunes

and I'm not suggesting it's an either/or binary - rather a spectrum with (abstractly) atonality at one end and MOR at the other

now that disclaimer is out of the way

I should have been clearer that hardcore itself is the departure point in this case - again you can't point at any single dividing moment or line, but somehow in ~7 years you get from sneering over sped-up Chuck Berry to this
which along with first 2 D.R.I. 7"s, is the logical conclusion of the initial wave of U.S. hardcore

(everything that comes after - thrash, grindcore, power violence - is in dialogue with the past rather than part of the initial burst of energy)

you're right that "Nothing" wasn't the best sonic example of what I was talking about - it's just such a perfect distillation of the vibe of the 1st wave of hardcore

the Negative Approach sonic example would be the 11 seconds of "Pressure"

I did notice that the hardcore bands - Descendants, Samoans - you named are from the most pop end of the most pop scene (Socal) in hardcore. not that saying that's bad - side A of the first Bad Religion LP is one of my favorite 80s hardcore records. I've never, even as a teenager, had any time for later pop-punk (besides the odd exception like Propaghandi), but those initial Socal bands - the ones named, plus anything Rikk Agnew was involved in - made some great records

tbh I find Zen Arcade way overrated - some decent tracks but like most double LPs, plenty of filler. I wouldn't perversely claim Land Speed Record is their best - tho it fucking rips - but I do firmly think Everything Falls Apart/Metal Circus Du is the best Du. New Day Rising and after, no thanks.

Reoccurring Dreams is the kind of thing I'd like better if I hadn't heard a ton of superior longform psychedelic jams

I also noticed that in virtually all examples of guitar overload you named, said guitar overload is largely or all textural rather than composition/playing, with the partial exception of Dinosaur Jr. - they have noise textures but Mascis certainly shreds. again, not value judgment, just observation.

Flipper did always have riffs and grooves but they didn't have hooks, not even in the JAMC sense of hooks buried under a wall of feedback noise

that's part of what I'm getting at - the difference between noise rock and "noise not music" as aesthetic philosophical base
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
but i do like that zone where things enter pop and change it, but also are changed by pop
right - I don't find that uninteresting but I don't care about it of itself b/c I don't really care one way or another about pop

I only care about pop to the extent to which it interacts with things I care about, which disco aside usually isn't much

that's what I mean by pop context, pop logic etc

I'd acknowledge I'm a specialist, albeit with multiple niches - things I really like, I get all the way into

I don't really care about clarity or structure or focus or whatever, I just care about what I care about - good riffs or raw energy or whatever the relevant qualities are

we're judging on different criteria

the radio rock you named - I'm all either indifferent to or actively loathe, with the exceptions of ZZ Top (the American AC/DC) and - for nostalgic reasons - the first Boston LP
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
here's one those YT exposition posts barty is always asking crowley to do about modern rap, except about hardcore, and no one asked for it

some examples, to illustrate

the first hardcore record, 1978. basically no one heard it, but it's the blueprint that Ginn + co then popularized. not just history tho, also a great record. it's all there - no hooks, just a blur of atonal power chord speed (blazing fast for 78 - no one caught up until "Pay to Cum" a full two years later)

Lou Barlow + J Mascis's pre-Dinosaur Jr. teenage hardcore band. Barlow on guitar Mascis on drums.

again, not just a curio tho - when it gets fast, it's insanely fast for 1982 - almost blastbeats. another important waypoint on the road from The Ramones to Napalm Death.

1983, the mighty Die Kreuzen just annihilating Milwaukee public access TV, maybe the greatest U.S. hxc vocalist. shame they turned into a mediocre indie band.

the first U.S. band to really integrate global influences - a mix of every good thing in U.S., European, and Japanese hardcore ca. 1983

and then Siege - Drop Dead, as noted above

the Discharge model has literally hundreds if not thousands of examples - a couple of the most archetypal

Sweden 1982

Italy 1983 (translated "Does the State Need You? Well, Fuck It" a truly perfect Discharge haiku of a title)

Spain 1983

and so on. not many U.S. bands copped the Discharge model - the most important being Crucifix, who are pretty well-known (hell, Orbital sampled them once)

sludge punk bonus

if you like Flipper, you should check out the first Fang LP - not as sludgy but possibly even more nihilistic (to a tragic degree, if you know the Sammytown story)
 
Last edited:

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
other odds + ends

@Corpsey - you (and luka, barty, droid, idk I'm forgetting anyone) deserve the lion's share of the credit for breathing life into this place when it was moribund - we should all be thanking you

@pattycakes - saw your proposed deepness thread. all my dissensus energy is obviously being expended here rn, but know that I'm thinking on deepness too.
 

luka

Well-known member
im buried under all this dead weight of content can you give me something else please
show us the new game.
too much fucking dead matter heaped up to top of me here
 

luka

Well-known member
how do i wrestle this back from the gross muso zone i feel this sliding into. barty! it's your fault! this is your border to police.
 

luka

Well-known member
padraig you want to exist in the same aesthetic universe as a band that calls themselves shitlickers. thats a clean dividing line between us.

this to me is just so much ugliness, just horrible excessive blaoted uglinesss

i cant find a sympathetic window onto it and i have to be honest, i dont want to try. the shit lickers. i dont want to be there thanks
 
Top