The TIME Barrier.

[luka]

idk, not my area of expertise

we dont let that stop us here. but yeah ive tried with dizzy, monk, parker et al and nah cant do it.

[luka]

giant steps is 1960 so seems like a good dividing line.

[padraig (u.s.)]

americans being square and thinking they're getting freaky or british public school boys

ya there's a lotta that tbf. otoh, there are different kinds of psychedelic. there some truly fucking weird records from that era + shortly after. couple trends. the traditional arbiters of cultural completely lost touch w/what was cool so you get all kindsa weirdos getting $/studio access. also you get collectives of hippies making freeform music. also trained serious people making freeform records. some of it is unlistenable garbage, plenty is dated + embarrassing, but there are some great things too. Pärson Sound, The Beat of the Earth, The Godz, Baby Grandmothers, the first Amon Düül record, Musica Elettronica Viva, etc etc. there's tons of far out jazz + whatever too but I'm less expert on that.

[luka]

thats good.

[sadmanbarty]

In the late-60's hard rock was not once captured in the studio. on live albums and bootlegs there's tons but as far as studio goes it's as hard as warm piss.

[padraig (u.s.)]

psychedelic vibes ain't just about lush immersion

[padraig (u.s.)]

In the late-60's hard rock was not once captured in the studio. on live albums and bootlegs there's tons but as far as studio goes it's as hard as warm piss.

Blue Cheer

[padraig (u.s.)]

that is an untouchable heavy guitar studio record ca. 1968

[sadmanbarty]

giant steps is 1960 so seems like a good dividing line.

i'm obsessed with drums so i personally jump on board once elvin jones and tony williams become prominant. other than that you're right. giant steps is essentailly taking the piss of bebop; it's a vision of the future without free jazz or modal jazz, it's just wizzing through more and more chords faster and faster.

[luka]

thats good.

seriously hate the whimsy of brit psychedilia too. incense and peppermint. hate sgt pepper etc. all of it makes me puke. all whimsy in music disgusts me.

[sadmanbarty]

that being said the sweet dub can occasionally be heart shattering

[luka]

i'm obsessed with drums so i personally jump on board once elvin jones and tony williams become prominant. other than that you're right. giant steps is essentailly taking the piss of bebop; it's a vision of the future without free jazz or modal jazz, it's just wizzing through more and more chords faster and faster.

yeah i can see that. all that brushwork in early jazz is impossible to take seriously now for instance. the light touch. just think of period drama and actresses in flapper outfits

[sadmanbarty]

walking bass is another one

the bass on this sounds archaic



compared to this (this is probably a desert island disc of mine)

[padraig (u.s.)]

this is a dub record I like

has the knack all the best dudes had of using flourishes, production tricks, addition/removal, etc to make something interesting out of the primordial bass ooze

same way top class disco etc producers kept 8-10+ minutes of 4x4 interesting by constantly adding, removing, altering elements over the main hypnotic groove

important thing w/dub anyway is how thoroughly its mindset and technique/ideas infiltrated music production, especially dance music.

[droid]

The trails of Bebop, Hard bop, Parker, Miles & Coltrane flowering... IMHO '55-'65 is the golden decade for Jazz surely?

If you dont like 70's dub, you dont like dub. That decade has never been equalled.