sadmanbarty

Well-known member
has any film in the history of cinema been more dedicated to aesthetic potency than joel schumacker's batman forever. lighting, outfit, set designs. every inch of it is beautiful.

come to think of it, is it the film that most embodies the rave revolution?

finally, is there a better batman film?
 

version

Well-known member
I liked Burton's first one a lot, that strange sense that it's set in some parallel universe where the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and 80s occurred simultaneously.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
has any film in the history of cinema been more dedicated to aesthetic potency than joel schumacker's batman forever. lighting, outfit, set designs. every inch of it is beautiful.

come to think of it, is it the film that most embodies the rave revolution?

finally, is there a better batman film?

Batman & Robin obv.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
'As I observed the gods of the Marvel Cinematic Universe stomping across the big screen in Avengers: Endgame, each of these titans representing their own endless continuum of brand affiliations and corporate raison d’etre, the cacophonous tableau in front of me was contrasted by a stillness inside. During what alcoholics call a moment of clarity – to borrow words spoken by Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction– revelation dawned that this is what popular culture means in 2019. Endgame and its predecessor, the equally and intensely mediocre Avengers: Infinity War, are the defining cultural texts of our time.'

https://dailyreview.com.au/avengers-endgame-apocalypse-cinema/82852/

And so on.

Going to see it later today, and despite this guy being onto something, I'm looking forward to it!
 

version

Well-known member
I still haven't seen them all, but I watched Iron Man 3 the other night and thought it was the best of the three. The twist with Ben Kingsley was cool.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Saw it last night - not the best Marvel movie, not even the best Avengers movie, but very entertaining and even moving (in a shallow sort of way).

The thing about these movies, I've realised (especially having started watching 'Batman vs Superman') is that they're basically a TV series with a megabudget. They have a standardised and fairly bland look, they're not directed by director-directors, so visually they're fairly uninteresting. What really makes them enjoyable is the character relationships, the performances and above all the humour. When they try to be serious in the new one it sometimes works, but often it just feels (to an adult) a bit ridiculous. This is why Guardians and Thor: Ragnarok have been big standouts in the MCU.

One thing I'd say about this latest movie is that its so unrealistic and insane that I don't think you get much of that propagandist bent that we've been talking about in this thread. Although there was a throwaway line early on that actually hinted at what would have been a fairly radical idea - that the world COULD be better if the population was halved. (As sinister as that might be :crylarf:)
 

version

Well-known member
"#AvengersEndgame In 8th-century B.C., a blind, half-mythic bard named Homer captivated the ancient world with his tales of heroes, gods, and men. Not much happened in the world of storytelling for the next two millennia. I'm happy to say that our long wait is over."
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I'm watching Infinity War tonight and

A) I really like it a lot more than I remembered. It's so witty and affable.
B) I've realised what is obvious to many I suppose - the reason these marvel movies are so ugly and stodgy and lacking really brilliant action sequences - the mixing of CGI and live action. Of course! The directors, if they have skill, can't really use it due to limitations of angles etc. And on top of that, the CGI has to be made blurry and messy in order to merge convincingly with the live action. So you get this sort of ugly unreal hybrid. Which they've been improving but it still is something inescapably unreal and therefore often ugly and often unmoving. The actors and the dialogue is where you're being convinced of "reality". And the more crazy the characters get the more CGI has to be used.

One exception to this rule is Ant Man. The Ant Man movies have somewhat better action because they can use the scale so inventively, particularly comically.
 

version

Well-known member
"I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today’s franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks."

-- Alan Moore (2017)

https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusalem-eternalism-anarchy.html
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I had the opposite experience with rewatching Endgame to the one I had upthread. I think because it's so "sombre" for the first hour or so. It becomes absurd, trying to make us cry over Iron Man and his hammy PTSD.

It REALLY picks up when Thor appears and it becomes a sort of bizarre sitcom. I think Marvel's strength is cartoony, comedy, a surfeit of pomo wit. When it tries to be IMPORTANT it exposes itself as b-grade.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
What was the impact of popular heroes comic books in our culture? Why are people fascinated by alternative realities?

I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today’s franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks.

https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusalem-eternalism-anarchy.html
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
"I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today’s franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks."

Alan Moore, 2017

https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/...m-anarchy.html
 

luka

Well-known member
There's always been stuff like detective novels romance novels cowboy novels etc that operate at the most basic wish fulfilment level
 

luka

Well-known member
Big strong handsome men with a moral code but not afraid of violence. Men no woman can resist.
 
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