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Thread: labour + antisemitism

  1. #121
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    Well, I think the Guardian attitude towards Corbyn has been clear since Day 1 - they support the Labour centrists. But yeah, when that means essentially parroting the Tory line in issues like this, it's pretty disappointing even when one only has the minimum of faith in the Graun as an institution.

    Yeah, the idea that Russia won it for Trump (I'm sure they meddled) is just refusal to recognise that lots of people in the West are quite happy to vote for the far right under certain conditions. There's an extraordinary disavowal of the reality of recent Western history, which explains why massive projections are the order of the day.

    Just struck me that the Tory insistence that anti-Semitism is a *Labour* problem mirrors the projective logic of racism and anti-Semitism itself, whereby undesirable facets of character are associated with the Other because the Self cannot tolerate the truth.

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  3. #122
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    Decent and nuanced discussion on the issue here.


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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Decent and nuanced discussion on the issue here.
    Yeah the first guest on there is quite good I think. Finkelstein entertainingly rabid.

    It will be interesting to see how this develops now that the Tories are having their own Islamophobia problems.

    Also whether the Labour centrists will stop attacking the left quite so much for antisemitism now that far right activists are attacking left wing bookshops.

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  7. #124
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    Yeah, Finkelstein gets quite shakespearian towards the end there.

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  9. #125
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    I don't know if anyone is following the Chris Williamson story - he's tweeted his pleasure at meeting Assad propagandist Vanessa Beeley - who is also a 9/11 truther, said the London Bridge attack was a false flag etc etc. - Labour are never going to rid themselves of the taint of anti-semitism while this kind of thing is endorsed by party higher ups. Good summary in New Statesman today: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/m...cannot-be-both

    I sometimes think you could swap out the term "anti-semitism" out of this debate and replace it will "conspiracy bullshit". Conspiratorial thinking is an essential part of populism, the rejection of elites and experts etc. It's how fringes take power - I'm reminded of the "chicken coup" or as others might call it, a normal leadership contest. There was a good piece on Labour list a few weeks ago called something like "cranks vs Lansmanites" by Jade Azim. I think what she misses is that as evidenced above, the cranks *are* the leadership.

    Here it is: https://labourlist.org/2018/08/the-r...tes-vs-cranks/

  10. #126
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    The inevitable hit piece about Corbyn's supposed links with Red Action has appeared in The Times, so perhaps that means people are running out of ideas now.

  11. #127
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    Idk - I think people associated with him will continue to say and do stupid things for a long time yet. The article above I posted above points to a fairly strong constituency within the party who can be guaranteed to do just that. The incident above didn't have to happen - Williamson made it so, because this is what he believes.

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  13. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Yeah, Finkelstein gets quite shakespearian towards the end there.
    you make me want to watch it now even though I'm sick to death of labour discussions.

  14. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    I don't know if anyone is following the Chris Williamson story - he's tweeted his pleasure at meeting Assad propagandist Vanessa Beeley - who is also a 9/11 truther, said the London Bridge attack was a false flag etc etc. - Labour are never going to rid themselves of the taint of anti-semitism while this kind of thing is endorsed by party higher ups. Good summary in New Statesman today: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/m...cannot-be-both

    I sometimes think you could swap out the term "anti-semitism" out of this debate and replace it will "conspiracy bullshit". Conspiratorial thinking is an essential part of populism, the rejection of elites and experts etc. It's how fringes take power - I'm reminded of the "chicken coup" or as others might call it, a normal leadership contest. There was a good piece on Labour list a few weeks ago called something like "cranks vs Lansmanites" by Jade Azim. I think what she misses is that as evidenced above, the cranks *are* the leadership.

    Here it is: https://labourlist.org/2018/08/the-r...tes-vs-cranks/
    Beeley is also the daughter of a lord. and has endorsed peter ford (london syria society) a mouthpiece of assad's father in law... white helmits al-qaeda terrorists etc etc.

    She also doesn't seem to shy away from hanging out with filth like Piers Corbyn and there were more holocaust deniers but idk going through my bookmarks is too taxing atm. long and short of it posh red brown fash.

  15. #130
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    I will defend the autodidact ultra-left crank until the day I die tho danny L. I mean being called deviations by Lenin and the trots has gotta amount to something.
    Last edited by thirdform; 21-08-2018 at 06:41 PM.

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  17. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    Beeley is also the daughter of a lord. and has endorsed peter ford (london syrlia society) a mouthpiece of assad's father in law... white helmits al-qaeda terrorists etc etc.

    She also doesn't seem to shy away from hanging out with filth like Piers Corbyn and there were more holocaust deniers but idk going through my bookmarks is too taxing atm. long and short of it posh red brown fash.
    Yeah, I know her stuff fairly well due to following the conflict. She was a horsebreeder until a few years ago. Also said meeting Assad was" the proudest moment of her life" on Facebook. The democracy of social media eh? All it takes is one fucking lunatic spouting shit, a little backing via state media and they're setting the terms of the debate. I hope her profile gets a bit bigger so someone sues her for libel. I dream of seeing her do time like David Irving - don't know if the incitement of war crimes via social media is an offence? It should be.
    Last edited by DannyL; 22-08-2018 at 09:16 AM.

  18. #132
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    Good piece that makes a comparison between her and nazi propagandist Julius Strechier: https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/ess...in-syria-17104

    Really weird to think that the high point of your life's work, your 15 minutes, would be attacking medics and rescue workers in a warzone.

    (Rhetorical question) - but what does it say about the Labour Party that this stuff can flourish unopposed. Predictable silence from the Great Leader's office.

  19. #133
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    Jesus Christ. The Absolute Boy has now been publicly endorsed by Nick Griffin and David Duke. I shudder to think how much worse this can get.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  20. #134
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    Those two fash are just shit-stirring attention seekers though.

    Griffin clearly not remembering Corbyn's time as Secretary for Anti-Fascist Action who consistently turned over the BNP.

    Perhaps Jeremy has also forgotten this, tbf.

  21. #135
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    He keeps fucking this up - I guess decades in the wilderness trying to keep everyone in the small tent means you're ill equipped to disrespect former colleagues when you're in the big tent.

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