luka

Well-known member
id prefer not to talk about the north. it's a differernt country. we have nothing in common whatsoever.
 

luka

Well-known member
ive never been there and i never want to go there. they listen to steve lamaq all the time.
 

Leo

Well-known member
oh sorry yeah we being londoners but also probably the whole south-east of the country.

ah, ok...thought "we" was dissensus discussion.

as an old foreigner, i've got nothing to contribute here really except to say that in general when talking about musical and cultural trends, people often think things start to suck/end as they get older (it was better back in the day!) but at the same time there's usually a young generation coming up who feel they've created their own thing and are glad that the older folks either dismiss it or sometimes don't even know of it exists.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
cities like Liverpool Manchester Birmingham Bristol all have west indian communities

so it's interesting that London is hardcore continuum central - is this just because London is by its very nature a gravitational point for creativity? that it has a higher population? or that any narrative of british culture is probably going to focus on London, not least because a lot of journos live in London?
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
The ironic thing about London is its this huge cosmopolitan magnet for immigration and yet its inhabitants tend to be basically provincially minded

I can see why btw - since moving here only a few years ago I've basically forgotten the rest of the country exists
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
cities like Liverpool Manchester Birmingham Bristol all have west indian communities

so it's interesting that London is hardcore continuum central - is this just because London is by its very nature a gravitational point for creativity? that it has a higher population? or that any narrative of british culture is probably going to focus on London, not least because a lot of journos live in London?

the other thing to remember of course is that the media is in London so stuff that happens elsewhere tends to be off-radar

perhaps that's one of the reasons the nuum has died - in the internet era nothing in London can possibly happen without being corrupted by attention

'In physics, the observer effect is the theory that simply observing a situation or phenomenon necessarily changes that phenomenon.'

edit:

probably covered extensively in the 'if new york can die so can london' thread - but with the increasing marginalisation of working class and even middle class people in the capital, will the more exciting cultural innovations be happening in other cities in the future?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
These days it's much more interesting to find out about pirate radio in Hull, or reggae soundsystems in Huddersfield than London stuff.

Hackney Museum are planning an exhibition about black music in the borough and I am helping them with some bits.

I love London and don't want to live anywhere else, even now, but it's pretty dumb to ignore the contributions made to the culture by places like Bristol, Birmingham and Sheffield especially.
 

luka

Well-known member
These days it's much more interesting to find out about pirate radio in Hull, or reggae soundsystems in Huddersfield than London stuff.

Hackney Museum are planning an exhibition about black music in the borough and I am helping them with some bits.

I love London and don't want to live anywhere else, even now, but it's pretty dumb to ignore the contributions made to the culture by places like Bristol, Birmingham and Sheffield especially.

they made some good records (some early roni size stuff for instance) but they contributed absolutely nothing beyond that and it would be patronising tokenism to suggest otherwise imo
 

luka

Well-known member
whereas LA, Memphis, Atlanta, Houston, etc all made distinctive regional variations and mutations of rap music. you cant claim provinical centres in the UK did the same with hardcore continuum. if they didnt exist nothing would be different at all
 

john eden

male pale and stale
they made some good records (some early roni size stuff for instance) but they contributed absolutely nothing beyond that and it would be patronising tokenism to suggest otherwise imo

Birmingham was number 2 city in the UK for reggae soundsystems in the 70s and 80s.

Also I don't think you can ignore the role of places like Milton Keynes in 'ardkore.

Sheffield's Bleep and Bass stuff has to count for something too.
 

luka

Well-known member
Birmingham was number 2 city in the UK for reggae soundsystems in the 70s and 80s.

Also I don't think you can ignore the role of places like Milton Keynes in 'ardkore.

what im saying is those provinical centres dont change the direction. they're tributaries.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I guess fundamentally the UK is a small place. The big cities in the US are so far apart geographically that it isn't a surprise that their music is different. Even the farthest apart cities in the UK are about as removed from each other as two cities in the same American state might be.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
i think an under discussed reason for the decline is that the external musical stimuli feeding the hardcore continuum were in decline. i'd argue rap was in a bad way between 2004-2014, dancehall after 2010 or so, us and european dance music probably since the late 90's.

you could point to 2step emerging from the innovations of todd edwards and timbaland. or garage rap and grime owing something to ward 21-style dancehall and the popularisation of southern rap. but by 2010 these sources of inspiration weren't particularly fruitful.
 
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