yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
more or less agree with you zhao but don't you think that the usa and china are economically so interwoven and dependent on each other that war would be disastrous for both?
 

luka

Well-known member
Tea you don't have to police everyone's opinion. Is he mad? Yeah, probably a bit mad. So what? Is there a truth in what he's saying that you are completely oblivious to? Yes, clearly. You know what zhao is. I just don't see the point in trying to turn him into another mr tea clinging slavishly to the party line and received wisdom. Relax.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Tea you don't have to police everyone's opinion. Is he mad? Yeah, probably a bit mad. So what? Is there a truth in what he's saying that you are completely oblivious to? Yes, clearly. You know what zhao is. I just don't see the point in trying to turn him into another mr tea clinging slavishly to the party line and received wisdom. Relax.

I'm not trying to turn zhao into a clone of me, what are you talking about? That's obviously no more likely than me becoming a clone of him. I just think it's interesting that an apparent ideological about-face has revealed a much deeper issue, and I was wondering if he has either the courage or the self-knowledge to admit it.

As to the wider point, well why does any of post here? You're hardly immune to the temptation to needle people yourself.

It's also ironic how many people think it's only a "party line" if it's a Western country's party line. (I was unaware AI even counted as a party.) Everything zhao's written here could have come straight from some CCP communications office, and quite possibly has for all I know. At this rate he'll pretty soon be denying anything unusual happened in Tiananmen Square in April 1989.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Actually it'd be much more like his style to acknowledge that protests and maybe even a massacre took place but to attribute the entire thing to "CIA agitators" and their "collaborators" who got what they deserved.
 

luka

Well-known member
Padriag spent ages composing a response to this earlier today then obviously thought... You know what... Fuck it....
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
nah it's just I'm almost always typing on my phone these days and it makes composing all but the shortest comments incredibly tedious (which is why i so rarely comment in general now)

tho in this case tbf I was also like ya, fuck it
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
The gist of it was Zhao isn't wrong abt Russia, but at the same time that's an incomplete view, and one from an angle casting the West (which doesn't need help looking bad, ofc) in the worst possible light, and Putin (who fucking sux, independently of any comparison to how garbage Western pols are) in the best possible light.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well I'd be interested in what you've got to say if you have any energy left after diving into the Craner thread.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Clever of John Bolton to co-opt Amnesty International. I wonder how he managed that?

Actually this thread has been quite useful because it's finally prompted you to really cut loose and show your true colours. After a good decade of screaming at many people here for their "Islamophobia", sympathetic posts about Islamist terrorism and so on, it's now clear that you don't give and never have given a shit about Muslims in Palestine, Iraq or anywhere else. The main thing for you was always your own Oedipal rage against "the West".


Not that I think Zhao is saying anything remotely controversial or subversive here, if anything standard leftist social democratic talking points mixed with the customary brew of british diplomat and American left bourgeois red brown rantings, but you can't help taking out your uncircumcised cock and ejaculating over the qu'ran to tell us just how much you care about muslims do you? Really the british are the best at falsifying everything to make themselves to look like the good guys.

Bordiga's dictum should be reversed: whilst after 1945 the worst product of fascism was anti-fascism, in the 21st century, the worst product of anti-fascism is blindness to the real fascist threat, and it ain't coming from the diplomat or even necessarily Putin.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
you should just come out as a british hawk and save us all. not that I think Zhao's politics are in any way profound, dressing up welfare statism as communism (which it isn't, it's socialism) but you are both cut from the same cloth really, it's just that one can't help having a legion of white paramours. both of you defend civilisation and harmony. whereas me and Luke are barbarians, as any true communist should be, and even those who really want to put an end to all kinds of deplorable harmonies and melodic climaxes. humpf.
 
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other_life

bioconfused
third i'm very sympathetic to many 'left communist' arguments (that "communists are barbarians" essay is electrifying, the account of the situationists in greil marcus's 'lipstick traces' and my subsequent cursory readings of their stuff also) but bc it was the first strain of this thought i was exposed to, at a very young age, most of what i read and find myself agreeing with is marxist-leninist.
very sympathetic to arguments in the vein of "though the soviet union and comecon countries were/are only social democracies ['at the barrel of a gun'?] their real achievements in terms of human well-being are too flippantly glossed over/dismissed" i'm definitely open to having holes poked in that kind of argument.
the cpgb-ml and wwp are disgraceful as well, of course. and generally the kind of person they attract even if unaffiliated, especially on international questions. like 50 years behind.
and one thing i've been getting out of sakai's 'settlers' is that ostensibly 'communist' and 'workers' organisations in the u.s. with european bases pivoted to the middle class with their base and did a great deal to discredit their arguments for a looong time with the internal-colonial proletariat.
i'm also gonna read and take notes/questions on politzer's 'elementary principles of philosophy' on the recommendation of the rhizzone (though they've come to appreciate there are a few not-insignificant problems with it) in order to clarify/solidify the materialist conception in my own brain. maybe you have a complementary/better recommendation from the 'leftcom' perspective as far as an exposition of materialism?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Not that I think Zhao is saying anything remotely controversial or subversive here, if anything standard leftist social democratic talking points mixed with the customary brew of british diplomat and American left bourgeois red brown rantings, but you can't help taking out your uncircumcised cock and ejaculating over the qu'ran to tell us just how much you care about muslims do you? Really the british are the best at falsifying everything to make themselves to look like the good guys.

Bordiga's dictum should be reversed: whilst after 1945 the worst product of fascism was anti-fascism, in the 21st century, the worst product of anti-fascism is blindness to the real fascist threat, and it ain't coming from the diplomat or even necessarily Putin.

I don't think I ever claimed any such thing, dear boy. I was referring to an established position that zhao used to argue from a decade and more before you ever showed up here.

Don't let that stop you have a mental frothing spastic rant, though.
 
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