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Thread: Chinese Influence & Expansion

  1. #31
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    Padriag spent ages composing a response to this earlier today then obviously thought... You know what... Fuck it....

  2. #32
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    nah it's just I'm almost always typing on my phone these days and it makes composing all but the shortest comments incredibly tedious (which is why i so rarely comment in general now)

    tho in this case tbf I was also like ya, fuck it

  3. #33
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    The gist of it was Zhao isn't wrong abt Russia, but at the same time that's an incomplete view, and one from an angle casting the West (which doesn't need help looking bad, ofc) in the worst possible light, and Putin (who fucking sux, independently of any comparison to how garbage Western pols are) in the best possible light.

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  5. #34
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    I was gonna run thru his points

    But ya I'd much rather put my limited Dissensus time into Craner's Top 100 etc

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  7. #35
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    Idk maybe if I have the energy when I get home

  8. #36
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    Well I'd be interested in what you've got to say if you have any energy left after diving into the Craner thread.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Clever of John Bolton to co-opt Amnesty International. I wonder how he managed that?

    Actually this thread has been quite useful because it's finally prompted you to really cut loose and show your true colours. After a good decade of screaming at many people here for their "Islamophobia", sympathetic posts about Islamist terrorism and so on, it's now clear that you don't give and never have given a shit about Muslims in Palestine, Iraq or anywhere else. The main thing for you was always your own Oedipal rage against "the West".

    Not that I think Zhao is saying anything remotely controversial or subversive here, if anything standard leftist social democratic talking points mixed with the customary brew of british diplomat and American left bourgeois red brown rantings, but you can't help taking out your uncircumcised cock and ejaculating over the qu'ran to tell us just how much you care about muslims do you? Really the british are the best at falsifying everything to make themselves to look like the good guys.

    Bordiga's dictum should be reversed: whilst after 1945 the worst product of fascism was anti-fascism, in the 21st century, the worst product of anti-fascism is blindness to the real fascist threat, and it ain't coming from the diplomat or even necessarily Putin.
    Last edited by thirdform; 20-04-2019 at 10:03 PM.

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  11. #38
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    you should just come out as a british hawk and save us all. not that I think Zhao's politics are in any way profound, dressing up welfare statism as communism (which it isn't, it's socialism) but you are both cut from the same cloth really, it's just that one can't help having a legion of white paramours. both of you defend civilisation and harmony. whereas me and Luke are barbarians, as any true communist should be, and even those who really want to put an end to all kinds of deplorable harmonies and melodic climaxes. humpf.
    Last edited by thirdform; 20-04-2019 at 10:12 PM.

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  13. #39
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    perhaps you would do to read this to get out of your servile human rights shtick.

    http://www.international-communist-p...S/57ColQue.htm

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  15. #40

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    third i'm very sympathetic to many 'left communist' arguments (that "communists are barbarians" essay is electrifying, the account of the situationists in greil marcus's 'lipstick traces' and my subsequent cursory readings of their stuff also) but bc it was the first strain of this thought i was exposed to, at a very young age, most of what i read and find myself agreeing with is marxist-leninist.
    very sympathetic to arguments in the vein of "though the soviet union and comecon countries were/are only social democracies ['at the barrel of a gun'?] their real achievements in terms of human well-being are too flippantly glossed over/dismissed" i'm definitely open to having holes poked in that kind of argument.
    the cpgb-ml and wwp are disgraceful as well, of course. and generally the kind of person they attract even if unaffiliated, especially on international questions. like 50 years behind.
    and one thing i've been getting out of sakai's 'settlers' is that ostensibly 'communist' and 'workers' organisations in the u.s. with european bases pivoted to the middle class with their base and did a great deal to discredit their arguments for a looong time with the internal-colonial proletariat.
    i'm also gonna read and take notes/questions on politzer's 'elementary principles of philosophy' on the recommendation of the rhizzone (though they've come to appreciate there are a few not-insignificant problems with it) in order to clarify/solidify the materialist conception in my own brain. maybe you have a complementary/better recommendation from the 'leftcom' perspective as far as an exposition of materialism?
    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    Not that I think Zhao is saying anything remotely controversial or subversive here, if anything standard leftist social democratic talking points mixed with the customary brew of british diplomat and American left bourgeois red brown rantings, but you can't help taking out your uncircumcised cock and ejaculating over the qu'ran to tell us just how much you care about muslims do you? Really the british are the best at falsifying everything to make themselves to look like the good guys.

    Bordiga's dictum should be reversed: whilst after 1945 the worst product of fascism was anti-fascism, in the 21st century, the worst product of anti-fascism is blindness to the real fascist threat, and it ain't coming from the diplomat or even necessarily Putin.
    I don't think I ever claimed any such thing, dear boy. I was referring to an established position that zhao used to argue from a decade and more before you ever showed up here.

    Don't let that stop you have a mental frothing spastic rant, though.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

  17. #42
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    I see you're now being a prick to craner too, apropos of nothing at all.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I don't think I ever claimed any such thing, dear boy. I was referring to an established position that zhao used to argue from a decade and more before you ever showed up here.

    Don't let that stop you have a mental frothing spastic rant, though.
    1) don't call me dear boy like a condescending racist Rudyard Kipling wannabe.
    2) I know Zhao's argument all to well because it's the argument that has been used in Syria for years to own the libs, without realising that the libs are cut from the same cloth as them.
    3) I was also long aware of Zhao's pseudo-black athena arguments long before I joined up here.
    4) I am brown, these are the sorts of debates I grew up with, so once again, tuck away your cock and have some fucking humility.
    5) you have done nothing for muslims apart from occasionally lend a room or donate a bit of money to a charity, and charities in this context are immoral in the long term. a short term palliative.
    6) Ableism is really not a good look, Dominic.

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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post
    very sympathetic to arguments in the vein of "though the soviet union and comecon countries were/are only social democracies ['at the barrel of a gun'?] their real achievements in terms of human well-being are too flippantly glossed over/dismissed" i'm definitely open to having holes poked in that kind of argument.
    I think the Soviet Union, PRC and Cuba were progressive. However they were progressive historically in laying the preconditions for communism. I.E: they were progressive, in accordance with Marx's contention in chapter 15 of Capital that the real revolutionary dynamic in capitalism is the proletarianisation of the agricultural labourer. That is in terms of how I analyse these countries. So undoubtedly there were real achievements, but so were there in 1960s England. The thing is what achievements in these countries do not equate to a mode of production as such and can always be rolled back. What I have an issue is not the left wing of the marxist-leninists in the periphery countries, I have an issue with west centric M-Ls in hysteric fits of calling oh I dunno, Deng a revisionist when he just followed what had to be logically done in the economic domain. It wasn't pure anti-revisionist Mao and bad revisionist Deng, one has to look at the composition of industry, the composition of the peasantry, the composition of the bourgeoisie, but not only on a territorial but an international level.

    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post

    and one thing i've been getting out of sakai's 'settlers' is that ostensibly 'communist' and 'workers' organisations in the u.s. with european bases pivoted to the middle class with their base and did a great deal to discredit their arguments for a looong time with the internal-colonial proletariat.
    I'm sympathetic to Sakai and some third worldist analyses but I always tend to find their arguments about the real segmentation of the proletariat actually lacking, funnily enough. Like one of his academic disciples Zak Cope essentially argues that the entire first world proletariat are basically embourgeoisified through social democracy. Which is a huge stretch and completely goes against the marxist adage that the conflict in the class is between the forces and relations of production. It's more like in the first world that there is a much stronger management bureaucracy (which is salaried bourgeois!) otherwise for the most part social democracy is a thing of the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by other_life View Post

    i'm also gonna read and take notes/questions on politzer's 'elementary principles of philosophy' on the recommendation of the rhizzone (though they've come to appreciate there are a few not-insignificant problems with it) in order to clarify/solidify the materialist conception in my own brain. maybe you have a complementary/better recommendation from the 'leftcom' perspective as far as an exposition of materialism?
    I don't see left communism as a tendency so I'd rather say critical communism as the movement. Absolutely essential is Alfred Sohn-Rethel's Intellectual and manual labour: a critique of bourgeois epistemology.
    The soviet philosopher Evald Ilyenkov's Dialectics of the abstract in marx's capital, his essays on logic will really clarify things alongside as well.
    The Jamaican feminist Sylvia Winter's essays are also good, though not strictly orthodox marxist.
    Cesaire discourse on colonialism.
    The Black Panther Russell Maroon Schoatz wrote some very necessary stuff to engage with on questions of organisation, definitely.
    https://libcom.org/library/dragon-hy...tional-methods
    Huey Newton on inter-communalism is also good though I find it very much has to be read in a 1970s context.
    Bordiga - Aircraft Carrier Imperialism.
    https://libcom.org/library/aircraft-...amadeo-bordiga

    I'm sure if I go digging on the hd in the week I can find a lot more for you.

    I hope that helps!
    Last edited by thirdform; 21-04-2019 at 03:03 PM.

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  22. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    I see you're now being a prick to craner too, apropos of nothing at all.

    Actually no. I am quite fond of Craner, but you wouldn't realise that if you go crying to the boss and then intimidate me by calling me a spastic.

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