The only music worth its salt is psychedelic..

[Mr. Tea]

some beethoven innit.

^Real talk. Probably the most intense drug/music moment I've had was listening to the 9th Symphony just as I'd passed the peak of a mushroom trip that well and truly chewed me up and spat me out.

[padraig (u.s.)]

the role of ritual music

young people looking - consciously or not - for sacral experience that once would've been solely the province of the religious, mystical

again, idk if you can recreate that the sense of possibility at this point via music. maybe other art forms, multimedia, engaging with technology.

there's also far less mystery in pop culture than there was even 10 years ago let alone 30. everything is branding, there's no real separate underground cultures.

that is actually an interesting to thing to look back on, the degree to which traditional gatekeepers of pop culture completely lost a handle on coolness in the late 60s - record labels hiring house hippies + throwing $ at all kinds of crazy projects, the rise of New Hollywood, etc - for 5-10 years. impossible to imagine something like that happening now, marketing is infinitely more sophisticated + integrated at all levels.

don't have any real answers but it's an interesting topic to speculate on.

[padraig (u.s.)]

"you had to be there"

that's for anything

I mean specifically people had no frame of reference for what they were hearing

it's kind of a thing that can only happen once - the realization of the possibility of possibilities - afterword it just remains to map the limits of the possible

why I think similar mind-blowing experiences would have to come from new art forms - like the initial impact of film synthesizing various existing arts into a new art form

probably some kinda VR thing

@martin - ya Fucking Cunts is better but still not all that great IMO. both amateurs at doing abrasive agit-noise.

sometimes political rock musicians get this idea they can just do agit pop cos pop (or noise, whatever) is easy, but they're usually wrong, i.e. Le Tigre

[Mr. Tea]

that's for anything

I mean specifically people had no frame of reference for what they were hearing

I would say it's more important for live music than club music played by a DJ. Of course it's never going to be 1988 (or 1994 or whatever) ever again - that moment has passed - but a certain record is objectively going to sound the same whether it's played now or 30 years ago or 30 years in the future, leaving aside how it feels for the people hearing it. But after 1970 no-one ever got to see Jimi Hendrix perform in the flesh.

[padraig (u.s.)]

more important for live music than club music played by a DJ

you are misunderstanding me

it's not about how something sounds, it's about completely not having a frame of reference for it - not even imagining the possibility of its possibility

I'm sure live it was much further out, but live or recorded doesn't matter, just lacking the prior frame of reference

like the well-known story of Holger Czukay hearing "I Am the Walrus" + having his mind blown + going on to form Can

gods love u tho + your dogged literalism, Oliver

[Mr. Tea]

At your service and your family's.

[DannyL]

A lot of 60s psych is bland and boring. One of the dullest, most over-hyped groups I've ever heard was the 13th Floor Elevators. Supposed to be a psych classic - just sounded like a typical beat group playing basic rock. Some of the stuff that psych obsessives gush over sounds indistinguishable from Mungo Jerry to me.

I would disagree and agree at the same time re. The Elevators Paul Drummond's Eye Mind book is really good on this (look at me though, with an appeal to books and history - about as far away from the psychedelic experience as possible). The band were living with the ramifications of LSD and getting high in Texas at a time when a joint could get you put away for years. They might've been the first "drugs as lifestyle" band and it cost them. Tommy Hall sounds like he's still quite mad, Roky was institutionalised, Stacy Sutherland had continual bad mental health up until his death. And I think there music tries to communicate this, "Slip Inside This House" is an amazing song - the lyrics have root in mysticism and sound really other to me, though I could imagine you just hearing it as a load of vague hippy warbling. There's a pretty strong carryover from their experiences in the music as I hear it - i guess it was successful (or cult at least 'til recent years) 'cos it managed to do this and still keep that pop/rock immediacy.

I have listened to a fair few canon psych LPs though and thought "this is just like The Beatles but not as good".

I do have a soft spot for twee UK psychedelia thoughso maybe my taste is not to be trusted. That pop moment when grown men pretended to be five years old. That is one thing this thread is missing so far. The sheer BAD TASTE and awkward moments that psychedelia through up by the bucketload.

I love this LP f'instance, but don't know if you can play it in company:

[Mr. Tea]

Meat Puppets II - now that is a good proper psych rock record.

[martin]

I do have a soft spot for twee UK psychedelia thoughso maybe my taste is not to be trusted. That pop moment when grown men pretended to be five years old.

Do Bulldog Breed count in that? I was trying to tell someone their album was pretty good, then realised it was going to be a really hard sell with song titles like "Sheba's Broomstick Ride" and "Eileen's Haberdashery Store".

Can't listen right now as am at work. However, here is an example of something that might be seminal 60s psych - or could equally just be girly garage pop with an engineer testing the delay switch for the first time - that I think is well groovy:

[padraig (u.s.)]

ya personal fave of mine as well, as well as one of the few all woman band garage tunes

I confess to a fondness for garage psych. mostly US (+ Canadian) >> UK, as I generally prefer the rawer/protopunk side, lotta British stuff is too twee for me

kinda feel like the harder British stuff tended toward mod, The Who Maximum R+B thing, tho tbf these are generalizations

@Danny - 13th FE were true pioneers in every way + the deserve massive credit but think it's fair to say they paved the way for other people more than anything

having said that they do have some real tunes. I've always loved their version of it's It's All Over Now Baby Blue, despite my general aversion to all things Dylan.

[padraig (u.s.)]

a few personal faves



this one is proper drug music


ultra fuzzy af protopunk classic, also p conceptually psychedelic, "journey to time" such a ca. 67 vibe


probably the noisiest feedback 60s fuzz I've heard. from protopunk capital Detroit. whole LP is pretty good, v rare for garage rock.

[padraig (u.s.)]

+ tbf here's a couple British tunes that rock decently hard



famously covered by Ride, tho it ain't got nothing on the original, tho fair fucks to em for having good taste

[padraig (u.s.)]

oh + not really psychedelic at all but the ultimate girl band garage tune, featuring a young Suzi Quatro, an underrated/forgotten female rock pioneer