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Thread: why is experimental electronic

  1. #16
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    Sure, Im not necessarily arguing for straight lines, (though it can be done with varying degrees of granularity & bullshit: Stockhausen>Kraftwerk>Bambaataa>Electro>... or Reich>tapeloops>sampling>jungle etc... ), but generally there are huge seams of popular music that have much more in common with various aspects of 20th century avant garde than with previous generations of pop music.

  2. #17
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    yeah agree on both points. and you can forget about straight lines from now on.
    no more record collector commodity fetishism.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    aphex twin was a genius for a little while.
    He was when he was still djing at big raves.

  4. #19
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    thirdform can you take responsibility for your thread please lol.
    take us somewhere. --------------->

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  6. #20
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    i'm not sure the fact that a form of music is predominantly made or listened to by one group of people is necessarily a problem, a worry, or even a mystery

    i don't think you can deduce from that that there is something exclusionary about it, or that there's a failing about it on the formal level that needs to be corrected (by an infusion of some other music tradition or musical qualities, conscious engagement with other sounds by its creators)

    there are self-selecting forces at work

    no music can be everything to everybody

    the more fiercely and fanatically it pursues one line of development, the more it moves away from others kinds of possibilities and feelings, and the more it distances itself from other communities of taste

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  8. #21
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    good point. its not a foodcourt in a shopping mall.

  9. #22
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    lean into the imbalance. dont try and correct it. magnify it.

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  11. #23
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    blokes with ponytails deserve their own music

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  13. #24
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    i think thirdform had a critique of jungle (or more accurately the narrative surrounding it) along these lines. he was basically saying that talking about jungle as 'multicultural' was a misnomer because it didn't fold in all of london's ethnicities.

    if art/entertainment's role is to capture a culture and zeitgeist then it's inherently obliged to cater and magnify a niche. music and subculture are inseparable.

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    nobody wants to eat fusion cuisine

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    bill laswell

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  17. #27
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    the initial question, taken without any kind of implied value judgement, is quite interesting though. people need to post examples of this type of music. i don't know what it is. i don't think i've ever heard it. i can't answer the question if i don't know what we're on about.

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    Fun fact: Gershon Kingsley ist still alive, aged 92

  19. #29
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    yeah I mean the obvious things right? the Western academic tradition it originates in only recently started becoming more diverse (+ wasn't at all in the prime of Stockhausen, GRM, etc), the technology was prohibitively rare/expensive for a long time, access to subcultural capital, market demand. if you use "experimental electronic" as description rather than genre then there's a vast, rich history of people of color, it's just almost always in service to the dancefloor, radio, whatever other medium of consumption - usually the only $ in avant-garde is jobs in academia, or if you're really fortunate composing soundtracks or something. if you go by description rather than genre then you have Patrick Adams, Roger Troutman, Juan Atkins, many many more.

    there is kind of a performative circular reasoning in the production-consumption-classification of experimental electronic as thirdform means - William Onyeabor was undoubtedly making experimental electronic music but not "experimental electronic". that can shade over into actual racism (c.f. Stockhausen + African rhythms, which I too immediately thought of) but is nowadays generally the kind of relatively benign self-selection blissblogger is talking about rather than active exclusion. I do suspect the further you can go back in history the more that balance would tip toward uncomfortable racial-cultural nonsense, tho tbf there's also a long tradition of a section of the European avant-garde welcoming non-European influences.

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  21. #30
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    I did try to think of every non-Euro/U.S./Japan avant-garde electronic person I could + all I came up with was:

    Francis Bebey, Mammane Sani, Jocy de Oliveira, Mimaroglu, Gökçen Kaynatan, Dariush Dolat-Shahi. I'm sure that's not exhaustive, but still.

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