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Thread: why is experimental electronic

  1. #31
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    this thread also seems like a good reason to post that awesome Terry Riley/Don Cherry live record

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  3. #32
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    hi.

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadmanbarty View Post
    i think thirdform had a critique of jungle (or more accurately the narrative surrounding it) along these lines. he was basically saying that talking about jungle as 'multicultural' was a misnomer because it didn't fold in all of london's ethnicities.

    if art/entertainment's role is to capture a culture and zeitgeist then it's inherently obliged to cater and magnify a niche. music and subculture are inseparable.
    I didn't formulate that critique well and yes as luka says noone wants to eat fusion cuisine.

    But it was more based on the hc continuum, hardcore and jungle specifically, generally being more than 50% white. It has always been a quintessentially english music (or at least a 90s idea of English, and there's nothing wrong with that inherently, well there is through inherent exclusion, but not musically, as such) this is why desi/banghra, middle eastern pop, soka, etc etc have never been able to penetrate apart from a few signifiers, same with vague nods to Latin. And then by 97 it essentially became a white techno, I mean I think the tech step sound was welcome compared to jump up + nico was a bad man but zone of fruitless intensifications etc. We've been here before. (not that there haven't been dnb tracks that have been good after 97, thats absurd but yeh the genre as a hole...)

    Grime being more of a radio format has kind of bucked that trend a bit so I think that's definitely a pro.

    i mean blissblogger acknowledges all of this in his book so no need to retread.

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  7. #34
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    I wasn't necessarily talking about sonic properties, like I was in the psychedelia thread.

    There's a tendancy to stereotype certain sounds as black brown or white but that reveals more about how we are embedded in certain methods of cultural consumption. like luka said:
    blackness represents many ideals for people often contradictory.

    Nor do I want to castigate the rise of coloured middle classes as a phenomenon in themselves, although ultimately the m/c has no future...

    Nor do I think that working class people can't be into abstract art.

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    There is kind of a performative circular reasoning in the production-consumption-classification of experimental electronic as thirdform means - William Onyeabor was undoubtedly making experimental electronic music but not "experimental electronic". that can shade over into actual racism (c.f. Stockhausen + African rhythms, which I too immediately thought of) but is nowadays generally the kind of relatively benign self-selection blissblogger is talking about rather than active exclusion. I do suspect the further you can go back in history the more that balance would tip toward uncomfortable racial-cultural nonsense, tho tbf there's also a long tradition of a section of the European avant-garde welcoming non-European influences.
    yeah this is what i was getting at. I mean I subscribe to boomkat so its turned my head in a big way and they are better than other similar retailers in promoting experimental music made by PoC, still i believe more could be done.

    But aside from boomkat, at what point do you think this is a self-referential thing when you're running a water bowl through fucking GRM tools? or noncharacteristic drone. *despairing*

  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    what is experimental electronic in this context? basically IDM and its offshoots? aphex and his descendents?
    Well idm is a weird one innit i don't think many of those guys thought of what they did as completely separate from the club but it then sort of became that way when idm artists started referencing other idm artists, essentially in the US with no relation to detroit techno/80s electro and jungle.

  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    But it was more based on the hc continuum, hardcore and jungle specifically, generally being more than 50% white.
    Hardcore perhaps, but I dont think thats true of jungle.

  11. #38
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    Experimental electronic music is only white if you do not recognize both the experimental and electronic character of what is usually discussed on this forum.

    Even within the limits of 'serious' experimental music, it's not as clear cut. Last weeks I have seen NON mentioned everywhere, getting rave reviews, deservedly, and they make a big point about blackness. That said, I am not sure categorising and appreciating music according to the distinction white/not white (or black/not black) is such a fruitful and positive endeavour.

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  13. #39
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    am not talking about this forum am i.

  14. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    am not talking about this forum am i.
    do you make music?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    do you make music?
    not at the moment no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Hardcore perhaps, but I dont think thats true of jungle.
    Point, actually. especially when you take into account the djs. I can't speak for the crowds tho.

  17. #43
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    Depends on the venue. Blue Note was fairly mixed and Ive heard it described as 'more middle class' by people who went regularly. Speed I assume would've been similar. AWOL was definitely blacker, and there mustve been dozens more nights with predominantly black punters.

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  19. #44
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    yep it depended on the event. roast and jungle fever for instance, catering to a different demographic to speed and metalheadz obviously but also to ravier raves like world dance or raindance

  20. #45
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    did speed exist in 94? i would have probably liked it that year. not come 95 tho.

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