why is experimental electronic

droid

Well-known member
Depends on the venue. Blue Note was fairly mixed and Ive heard it described as 'more middle class' by people who went regularly. Speed I assume would've been similar. AWOL was definitely blacker, and there mustve been dozens more nights with predominantly black punters.
 

luka

Well-known member
yep it depended on the event. roast and jungle fever for instance, catering to a different demographic to speed and metalheadz obviously but also to ravier raves like world dance or raindance
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Depends on the venue. Blue Note was fairly mixed and Ive heard it described as 'more middle class' by people who went regularly. Speed I assume would've been similar. AWOL was definitely blacker, and there mustve been dozens more nights with predominantly black punters.

yeah awol 92-94 tapes are some of my favs prefer them to most fantazia/dreamscapes etc. although tbh i prefer pirate radio sets from that era.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Nor do I think that working class people can't be into abstract art
absolutely

similarly - people of color can obv be into avant-garde electronic music, but we're talking about production, avenues of recognition, distribution, or in other words, cultural capital. and even tho some of those avenues are now more open - thru societal change, technological flattening, etc - I can only speculate that buildup, ossification around racial-cultural norms runs deep, even among people of (assumed) goodwill. you can probably slot things like Flying Lotus etc crew into "experimental electronic" proper yeah - idk, I'm no expert but it seems like certain areas are whiter than others, i.e. harsh noise/power electronics is (I'm guessing) 110% white, the future jazz etc side is considerably more diverse, in the middle the weird but still dancefloor side techno + house, like Jamal Moss? anyway however you look at I imagine you're going to wind up back at some combination of perceived encoded cultural norms, and market demand for culture producers.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Experimental electronic music is only white if you do not recognize both the experimental and electronic character
that disconnect is exactly what the thread is about - just not specifically/only on dissensus

also, excuse my ignorance but I assume you're not referring to Boyd Rice, but to some other NON?

b/c if that dude was making points about blackness, I...can't imagine it going well
 

droid

Well-known member
There's some funny stuff in the Hancock autobiography about the weirdo synth nerd who teamed up with him around the headhunter era and basically functioned as a technician/assistant - even joining him on stage at times. A perfect example of black/white avant/electronic/fusion dynamic.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
(further @m991) you're kinda flipping the point inside out

ofc we should try to transcend racial categorization of music - the question is why does it persist?

sometimes the answer is clear (racism, the like the openly racist side of black metal), but most of the time it isn't
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
A perfect example of black/white avant/electronic/fusion dynamic
sure, the origins of electro are basically a collaboration between Arthur Baker + Bambaataa (+ Juan Atkins George Clinton/Kraftwerk thing, ofc)

there are many, many examples that could be cited from many, many kinds of heavily racially coded music that would possibly surprise people

I think we're talking about branding, distribution, consumption, tho
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
that disconnect is exactly what the thread is about - just not specifically/only on dissensus

also, excuse my ignorance but I assume you're not referring to Boyd Rice, but to some other NON?

b/c if that dude was making points about blackness, I...can't imagine it going well

they're talking about the afrodiasporic label non, chino amobi, rabit, dedekind cut, angel-ho etc. I need to spend more time with em, must admit I haven't got the wow factor yet.

https://www.discogs.com/label/912986-NON-3
 

luka

Well-known member
2 quick, banal bits

to take the thread title literally- because it was new technology. new sound worlds. new possibilities.
whether that still holds is debatable i suppose.

and the second being that this forum is sort of founded on the premise that the avant garde isnt
to be found dressed in the uniform of the avant garde.
 

luka

Well-known member
being (and being acknowledged as) an 'artist' confers a certain prestige and status and access (in a particular strata of society)
but... its basically bad news isnt it. like when wiley was talking (in the wake of boy in the corner) about
wanting to be an artist you knew that he was about to make some very unarty music about something boring like
his inner feelings or whatever.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
never really occurred to me how ironic black metal's name is

black metal is a good one to bring up in this thread cos it's a) avant garde 'accidentally' b) about as 'white' (the query being what that means) as rock music gets and c) is (or was) actually racist
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
I did try to think of every non-Euro/U.S./Japan avant-garde electronic person I could + all I came up with was:

Francis Bebey, Mammane Sani, Jocy de Oliveira, Mimaroglu, Gökçen Kaynatan, Dariush Dolat-Shahi. I'm sure that's not exhaustive, but still.

there are loads of Japanese tape-music composers.

and Latin America was teeming with avant-garde electronic and music concrete
 
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