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Thread: why is experimental electronic

  1. #46
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    Started November '94 AFAIK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    Depends on the venue. Blue Note was fairly mixed and Ive heard it described as 'more middle class' by people who went regularly. Speed I assume would've been similar. AWOL was definitely blacker, and there mustve been dozens more nights with predominantly black punters.
    yeah awol 92-94 tapes are some of my favs prefer them to most fantazia/dreamscapes etc. although tbh i prefer pirate radio sets from that era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    Nor do I think that working class people can't be into abstract art
    absolutely

    similarly - people of color can obv be into avant-garde electronic music, but we're talking about production, avenues of recognition, distribution, or in other words, cultural capital. and even tho some of those avenues are now more open - thru societal change, technological flattening, etc - I can only speculate that buildup, ossification around racial-cultural norms runs deep, even among people of (assumed) goodwill. you can probably slot things like Flying Lotus etc crew into "experimental electronic" proper yeah - idk, I'm no expert but it seems like certain areas are whiter than others, i.e. harsh noise/power electronics is (I'm guessing) 110% white, the future jazz etc side is considerably more diverse, in the middle the weird but still dancefloor side techno + house, like Jamal Moss? anyway however you look at I imagine you're going to wind up back at some combination of perceived encoded cultural norms, and market demand for culture producers.

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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by m99188868 View Post
    Experimental electronic music is only white if you do not recognize both the experimental and electronic character
    that disconnect is exactly what the thread is about - just not specifically/only on dissensus

    also, excuse my ignorance but I assume you're not referring to Boyd Rice, but to some other NON?

    b/c if that dude was making points about blackness, I...can't imagine it going well

  6. #50
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    There's some funny stuff in the Hancock autobiography about the weirdo synth nerd who teamed up with him around the headhunter era and basically functioned as a technician/assistant - even joining him on stage at times. A perfect example of black/white avant/electronic/fusion dynamic.

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    (further @m991) you're kinda flipping the point inside out

    ofc we should try to transcend racial categorization of music - the question is why does it persist?

    sometimes the answer is clear (racism, the like the openly racist side of black metal), but most of the time it isn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid View Post
    A perfect example of black/white avant/electronic/fusion dynamic
    sure, the origins of electro are basically a collaboration between Arthur Baker + Bambaataa (+ Juan Atkins George Clinton/Kraftwerk thing, ofc)

    there are many, many examples that could be cited from many, many kinds of heavily racially coded music that would possibly surprise people

    I think we're talking about branding, distribution, consumption, tho

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  10. #53
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    we're talking about the coding itself

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    that disconnect is exactly what the thread is about - just not specifically/only on dissensus

    also, excuse my ignorance but I assume you're not referring to Boyd Rice, but to some other NON?

    b/c if that dude was making points about blackness, I...can't imagine it going well
    they're talking about the afrodiasporic label non, chino amobi, rabit, dedekind cut, angel-ho etc. I need to spend more time with em, must admit I haven't got the wow factor yet.

    https://www.discogs.com/label/912986-NON-3

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  13. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    excuse my ignorance but I assume you're not referring to Boyd Rice
    No, to this:

    https://nonworldwide.bandcamp.com/

    And in particular:

    https://nonworldwide.bandcamp.com/al...for-black-folk

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  15. #56
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    woah. thanks to you both. that looks amazing and is immediately going on my shortlist of things to check out.

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    2 quick, banal bits

    to take the thread title literally- because it was new technology. new sound worlds. new possibilities.
    whether that still holds is debatable i suppose.

    and the second being that this forum is sort of founded on the premise that the avant garde isnt
    to be found dressed in the uniform of the avant garde.

  17. #58
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    being (and being acknowledged as) an 'artist' confers a certain prestige and status and access (in a particular strata of society)
    but... its basically bad news isnt it. like when wiley was talking (in the wake of boy in the corner) about
    wanting to be an artist you knew that he was about to make some very unarty music about something boring like
    his inner feelings or whatever.

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    never really occurred to me how ironic black metal's name is

    black metal is a good one to bring up in this thread cos it's a) avant garde 'accidentally' b) about as 'white' (the query being what that means) as rock music gets and c) is (or was) actually racist

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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    I did try to think of every non-Euro/U.S./Japan avant-garde electronic person I could + all I came up with was:

    Francis Bebey, Mammane Sani, Jocy de Oliveira, Mimaroglu, Gökçen Kaynatan, Dariush Dolat-Shahi. I'm sure that's not exhaustive, but still.
    there are loads of Japanese tape-music composers.

    and Latin America was teeming with avant-garde electronic and music concrete

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