Jordan Peterson thinks it makes sense to compare humans with lobsters

droid

Well-known member
If you want some psychoanalytical insight go and watch some Gabor Maté lectures or something. Stay away from this dimwit.
 

Agent

dgaf ngaf cgaf
See I interpret Peterson's embrace of the paleo-tribal lifestyle and (maybe toxic) masculine archetypes as an attempt at cultural therapy for a generation of half-born men raised by television and film (Gen-X), and digital media (Millennials), and trying to force or shame them into tapping hardwired masculine instincts so they can protect and maintain the civilization they inherited, but TBH I wasn't aware of Peterson until a few months ago, and only through his university lectures, which I maintain are intelligent and insightful. Maybe his public persona goes too far, and hell maybe he's part of the Russian-Alt Right axis if he's trying to reassert authoritarianism as "natural," as part of our deep evolutionary instinct to be ruled by alpha males, conform to rigid hierarchies, and assume "natural" roles that fit whatever group you belong to (ie women and beta males and homosexuals belong in their slots and anyone who tries to break that mold is a threat to the hierarchy, and therefore a threat to group survival).
 

chava

Well-known member
Its a well worn cliche. The Western romanticisation of pure 'uncivilised' peoples.

"A noble savage is a literary stock character who embodies the concept of the indigene, outsider, wild human, an "other" who has not been "corrupted" by civilization, and therefore symbolizes humanity's innate goodness."

That was the Pankaj Mishra article which read like a smart-ass high school student's essay trying to pin Peterson down backed with a bit of Wiki 'research' going full guilt-by-association. I fully understand why Peterson almost lost it after reading this and wrote a answer where he wanted to slap the writer and called him a racist son of a bitch.

There's much be sceptical about wrt Peterson, but try to read something other than hitpieces and go for the people who critique him a bit more intelligently.

I don't even think that there's that much difference between Maté and Peterson :
 
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droid

Well-known member
Ive read more about Peterson that I ever wanted to. And watched far too much of his bullshit. He has nothing insightful to add to any debate. The fact that he is even considered an intellectual points to the paucity of public discourse.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Regardless of where he might have started out, and I'm not interested enough to try and find out, it seems clear that being sucked into the culture wars sends you mad. Positions harden and coarsen into caricature. No ambiguity or compromise is permissable. It's how you can end up eating nothing but steak. Steak for breakfast. Steak for lunch. Steak for tea. There's a demented wind blowing.
 

chava

Well-known member
Ive read more about Peterson that I ever wanted to. And watched far to much of his bullshit. He has nothing insightful to add to any debate. The fact that he is even considered an intellectual points to the paucity of public discourse.

Maybe. Although he doesn't consider himself an intellectual. In fact I am pretty sure he doesn't hold people who regards themselves as such in high regard.

Anyways, be free to ignore him, but this guy is not an alt-right 'enabler'. Quite the contrary; he cracked the code how to get to these basement dwellers before its too late. And what has the current left about this done other than being smart-ass ironic, ostracize or just wait for full automation and UBI to solve everything? He might be wrong on a lot of things, but he hit a nerve that's for sure.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it all turned out to be a massive philosophical experiment, to see how much inane bullshit he can trot out that people will still lap up. Fair play to him in that case. But from all accounts – i.e. by people who have known him for a long time – he really is like this.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
Maybe. Although he doesn't consider himself an intellectual. In fact I am pretty sure he doesn't hold people who regards themselves as such in high regard.

Anyways, be free to ignore him, but this guy is not an alt-right 'enabler'. Quite the contrary; he cracked the code how to get to these basement dwellers before its too late. And what has the current left about this done other than being smart-ass ironic, ostracize or just wait for full automation and UBI to solve everything? He might be wrong on a lot of things, but he hit a nerve that's for sure.

too late for what?
 

droid

Well-known member
Maybe. Although he doesn't consider himself an intellectual. In fact I am pretty sure he doesn't hold people who regards themselves as such in high regard.

Anyways, be free to ignore him, but this guy is not an alt-right 'enabler'. Quite the contrary; he cracked the code how to get to these basement dwellers before its too late. And what has the current left about this done other than being smart-ass ironic, ostracize or just wait for full automation and UBI to solve everything? He might be wrong on a lot of things, but he hit a nerve that's for sure.

Sure, he cracked the code by telling the alienated that the problem isnt the power structures that have alienated them but the women who wont put out and the narcissistic activists, aliens and others who corrupt society and suppress their speech.

Nothing right wing about that at all.

Jordan%20Peterson%2C%20Islamophobe.png
 

chava

Well-known member
Sure, he cracked the code by telling the alienated that the problem isnt the power structures that have alienated them but the women who wont put out and the narcissistic activists, aliens and others who corrupt society and suppress their speech.

Nothing right wing about that at all.


What power structures have alienated them? He tells them and very effectively it seems to overcome exactly those resentful feelings which some of them obviously, but wrongly of course, have. He also does not disregard larger societal changes for much of the reasons for this, but what to do about it? You can become an activist, of course, but will that really help or just redirect and harden your resentment?
 

droid

Well-known member
What power structures have alienated them? He tells them and very effectively it seems to overcome exactly those resentful feelings which some of them obviously, but wrongly of course, have. He also does not disregard larger societal changes for much of the reasons for this, but what to do about it? You can become an activist, of course, but will that really help or just redirect and harden your resentment?

What do you think? What entrenched & dehumanising system of power is prevalent in Western societies?

//Change your feelings, don't change the system. Don't agitate, tidy your room instead.

// Head down, look after yourself first, work hard and your dreams will come true

// Be pious, and obedient, your reward will come in the afterlife.

Same old story.
 

chava

Well-known member
What do you think? What entrenched & dehumanising system of power is prevalent in Western societies?

//Change your feelings, don't change the system. Don't agitate, tidy your room instead.

// Head down, look after yourself first, work hard and your dreams will come true

// Be pious, and obedient, your reward will come in the afterlife.

Same old story.

Stop strawmanning now. I can spell to neoliberalism if that's what you want.

He is no Ayn Rand worshipper, he seems to prefer the Canadian systems over the US' for instance.

I mean in this video he refers almost exclusively from 'The Spirit Level', _the_ bio-social argument for democratic socialism and a book all libertarians hate:

 

droid

Well-known member
Canada is hardly a social democracy. The fundamental issue remains the same. The self help prescription is in itself a product of capitalist individualism, which makes sense for Peterson as he rejects the political and social collective.

I don't see a strawman there. Peterson's basic message is the same as every authoritarian power structure in history. Ignore the system, don't try and change what you cant control, the problem is you.

Also, you haven't addressed his obvious right wing tendencies. He's very fond of the term 'cultural marxism' for example, and we know the origins and usage of that term dont we?

Just look at the shit he comes out with here. You would expect more from a 2nd level history student.

 

chava

Well-known member
Canada is hardly a social democracy. The fundamental issue remains the same. The self help prescription is in itself a product of capitalist individualism, which makes sense for Peterson as he rejects the political and social collective.

I don't see a strawman there. Peterson's basic message is the same as every authoritarian power structure in history. Ignore the system, don't try and change what you cant control, the problem is you.

Also, you haven't addressed his obvious right wing tendencies. He's very fond of the term 'cultural marxism' for example, and we know the origins and usage of that term dont we?

Just look at the shit he comes out with here. You would expect more from a 2nd level history student.

I don't think he mention Cultural Marxism anywhere, he is aware of all the connotation. Also he defends judaism quite a lot, much much more than the left does that is for sure. He does use the pomo/neo-marxism rant a bit much, though.

I've tried skipping around that video obviously made by a real orderly German dude. At some point he says that psychopathologizing the nazi as psychopaths ignores their stated ideology. But JP never uses psychopathologizing. It is almost a trope that all perceived pathologies by him is basically outgrowth of adaptive behaviour (and that is even scarier that supposedly ignoring ideology). But I haven't seen it all, doubt I will a bit too German for me.
 

chava

Well-known member
From his twitter account:

"RTs/follows are not to be read unfailingly as endorsements. I sometimes post material with which I do not agree."



From Quillette interview (https://quillette.com/2018/01/27/walking-tightrope-chaos-order-interview-jordan-b-peterson/)

Is “cultural Marxism” better?

"It’s an oversimplification because it doesn’t take into account the effect of the postmodernists. And I actually think the postmodernists were worse that the cultural Marxists, because they identify the cultural Marxists within the Frankfurt School, and there is some utility in that although its complicated.

There was far more excuse for the cultural Marxists than there was for the postmodernists. Because the cultural Marxists were reacting to Nazism. They had their reasons for being terrified of the radical Right and they had their reasons for trying to set the Left straight. Now, I think they did all sorts of perverse and corrupt things but it’s kind of like the original revolutionaries in the Soviet Union. They didn’t know it was going to be a century-long bloodbath. So, there was a little bit more excuse for their revolutionary utopian fervour."
 
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