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Thread: World Cup 2018

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    Exactly - you can't talk about building for the future when you lost a world cup semi to Croatia.
    I think you're underselling Croatia here, they've got two of the best midfielders in the world in Modric and Rakitic.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    you need better, more creative midfielders, which I guess is a traditional English weakness tho right? dodgy foreigners and their overly dramatic passing, or whatever
    We've had a few, but we never know what to do with them. Wilshere's the best we have at the moment, but he's been held back by injuries.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by hucks View Post
    Dunno about that. France should have won in 2016, fucked it up, and here they are about to win the World Cup. The work Germany put in in 2006-2010 paid off in 2014.

    Obviously it would be better to definitely win now than maybe win later, but, particularly with the success in the younger age groups, it's not ridiculous for England to look to the future here.
    Well yes,but they may reach their pinnacle in two years. At the next Euro which - let's not fool ourselves - is a distant second fiddle to the world cup

  4. #199
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    This has to be won by the French.

    I mean let's imagine some guy was in a coma for five years or so, wakes up and realizes: Trump is POTUS, Great Britian is out of the EU and friggin Croatia is world champion!

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I think you're underselling Croatia here, they've got two of the best midfielders in the world in Modric and Rakitic.
    No intention to do that at all - in theory Modric was certainly the best player on the pitch, Rakitic arguably the second (though it was Perisic's improvisation that won it - what a player for the big moments). After that it drops off. But in the first hour Croatia had nothing at all, and the match should've been over by then. I don't want to go on about Wales (I do), but look at the 3-1 win vs Belgium in the Euros, and the way Wales kept up the intensity and took their chances against a team with superior talent was, bizarrely, the very lesson England need to absorb. Vs both Colombia and Croatia, when the intensity was ramped up, England looked like so much less than the sum of their expensive and talented parts.

    And it's still Croatia in a semi-final. Not Germany, not Brazil, not France, not Spain, not Italy - none of those teams that England never, ever beat in competitive play. Croatia.

    I don't want to jinx the lads, but there is an 85% probability that throughout the course of their future lives they will regularly wake up sweating and screaming "It was only fucking Croatia!"

    Thoughts on how many games England have won vs the top sides in finals tournaments over the past, say, 50 years? It's pretty shocking when you can barely find....any*. For all the talk of top sports psychologists, you have to think that the same old inferiority complex remains, and the Premier League ain't helping...

    * Argentina in 2002, Cameroon in 1990, and then....?
    Last edited by baboon2004; 12-07-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  6. #201
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    if you think of how much france, germany, italy, spain have won over the last 40 years
    (roughly my lifetime) it does seem odd that the lads have won precisely nothing.
    even minnows like greece and portugal have had their moment in the sun.

  7. #202

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    Wasn't the Euro 96 4-1 win against Holland supposed to be a big deal or something?

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  9. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    Wasn't the Euro 96 4-1 win against Holland supposed to be a big deal or something?
    it was a great moment. probably the most joyous game england have been involved in over the last 40 years but it didn't win the lads a trophy

  10. #204
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    easily the most accomplished England have been on the world/continental stage. Can't believe I missed that one. Again, without a Gascoigne-type playmaker, England are going to struggle for focus when the going gets tough.

  11. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    building for the future
    nearly all your core guys are 23-25. players' historical prime is 25-29ish. there's every reason to believe most of them will better in 4 years.

    how much better, I have no idea, but just going by age their big shot should be 2022 as this WC was for Belgium.

    and tho I firmly believe "knowing to win" etc is nonsense in all sports, if you do believe in that kind of thing then this was a great experience for a group of young players to get

    I get that agonizing over soccer is more of a national pastime than the actual sport but the near future is relatively bright. brighter than the country's future anyway.

  12. #206
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    not that they'll be world-beaters, but you really only need to be good enough to get out of group and give yourself a fighting chance in the knockouts

    also idk I mean granted I don't follow soccer closely but Italy and the Dutch missed this WC altogether. Maybe Croatia is significantly better than them right now?

    I do grant it was very lucky to be opposite France, Brazil and Belgium.

  13. #207
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    anyway could've been worse, could've been penalties

  14. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    nearly all your core guys are 23-25. players' historical prime is 25-29ish. there's every reason to believe most of them will better in 4 years.

    how much better, I have no idea, but just going by age their big shot should be 2022 as this WC was for Belgium.
    England may be better, but there's no way that Argentina, Brazil, Spain and Germany won't also be (much) better. And Italy and the Netherlands will be back. This was England's once-in-a-lifetime window, like Leicester had in 2016 in the Premier League. Except Leicester didn't choke, which suggests that having Vardy on from the start last night might've been a good motivator. Mahrez wasn't doing much except signing for City yesterday, and he's practically an English national treasure these days so I'm sure Southgate could've swung it.

    Yep, and despite being in their prime with the best players the country has ever had, Belgium still couldn't even get to the final - because they played in a realistically difficult part of the draw, rather than the looking glass version that England were in.

    A lot of sportsmen* don't realise while they're planning for future glories, that now is actually the best it will ever get. Rooney in 2004.

    *English sportsmen.

    Incidentally, strange that the most surprising football news didn't even happen at the World Cup. Ronaldo to Juventus - who could have seen that coming??
    Last edited by baboon2004; 12-07-2018 at 06:23 PM.

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  16. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    it was a great moment. probably the most joyous game england have been involved in over the last 40 years but it didn't win the lads a trophy
    Moreso than the 5-1 against Germany?

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  18. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Moreso than the 5-1 against Germany?
    yes for 2 reasons. 1 it was in a tournament. 2 i dint see the germany game.

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