archetypal dyads

luka

Well-known member
i come back to coltrane/davis a lot and tend to view it as transcendence/immanence.

i think a lot about wiley/dizzee too. such different careers. one inwardly directed the other outwardly oriented. needless to say i relate to wiley.

do you form these dyads in your head too? got any examples?
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Messi vs Ronaldo
short vs tall
quiet vs loud
humble vs egoist
plain vs handsome
genius vs the grind
finesse vs power

I don't know FA about football.

All of these are no doubt simplifications - or outright distortions - of both players characters.

But this is broadly how I read their rivalry. They seem, superficially at least, dissimilar - which is what makes their rivalry so compelling.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Messi vs Ronaldo
short vs tall
quiet vs loud
humble vs egoist
plain vs handsome
genius vs the grind
finesse vs power

I don't know FA about football.

All of these are no doubt simplifications - or outright distortions - of both players characters.

But this is broadly how I read their rivalry. They seem, superficially at least, dissimilar - which is what makes their rivalry so compelling.

god-given vs forged by man.

The best way I saw it explained was something like this (more pithily done tho, natch): "Ronaldo is the ideal player as imagined by an algorithm. Messi is the ideal player as imagined by a football fan."

tho:
tax cheat vs victory dedications to 'all the Portuguese, all immigrants'
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Yeah was gonna say - isn't the plot twist that Ronaldo's a swell fella (as well as a swole fella) and Messi's a monster?
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Messi is obviously easier to love because he's not a strutting statuesque prettyboy who looks like he'd kick sand in your face at the beach.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Because he shows precisely nothing of who he is. People like blankness, especially when coupled with great talent.

Ronaldo lets all his human failings hang out.
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Federer and Nadal - another rivalry of vivid contrasts

finesse/grace vs. raw power
european vs latin
hairband vs biceps
reserve vs passion

etc.

All this stuff is actually what I like about sport the most - I can't really be arsed to watch any games/matches but I love reading about the personality clashes/cultural baggage.

Perhaps a dyad is supposed to be a team, though? I thought of rivalries cos luka brought up dizzee/wiley but of course they WERE a team at one point.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Like Rooney and Ronaldo

I think this is what makes sport fascinating to me too, along with the constant refinement of grand narratives. Ali and Liston or Ali and Foreman is another good one
 
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droid

Well-known member
Yeah was gonna say - isn't the plot twist that Ronaldo's a swell fella (as well as a swole fella) and Messi's a monster?

Messi apparently had a major role in stopping the recent Argentina/Israel friendly on human rights grounds.
 

luka

Well-known member
What do you mean by this? And do I need to have listened to jazz to understand?

no not really. coltrane always seems to be reaching for something davis always seems to be exploring something. ones trying to go beyond the other is staying with.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Thor vs Loki/Othello vs Iago

Moral wisdom vs. Immoral guile
Feeling vs. Cognition
Frankness vs. Deceit

Dramatisation of social struggles but also the inward struggle of every human psyche
 
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