funkiness

simon silverdollar · May 11, 2005

so i was in rough trade yesterday, flicking through their sale section, and came across a cd by someone i'd forgotten even existed: funki porcini...

which got me thinking about the almost visceral reaction i have to things that claim to be 'funky'. it's so instantly repellent to me: it puts things completely beyond the pale.

so many bad things seem to be bound up in the notion of 'funkiness', in that it tends to be the self-description of wacky muso types unwittingly (or not) removing themselves from the things that made the music that supposedly influenced them interesting and fun, OR the kind of description that dickhead tv presenters give music that's Just Weird Enough.

dance music made by and for people who don't dance. dance music made by and for people who aren't on the right drugs. and wackiness, always wackiness.

which is just a long-winded way of asking: would anyone buy anything that proclaimed itself to be 'funky'? would that description attract you, even?

(i'm talking about modern stuff that calls itself 'funky', not older (pre-80s) stuff)

Diggedy Derek · May 11, 2005

I always liked the Beastie Boys' criterea which they applied to funk 7"s- it goes something like "if it has funky in the title, it almost certainly isn't. However if it has freaky in the title, it almost certainly is".

soul_pill · May 11, 2005

What about 'Funky Funk Funk' by Reese?

bassnation · May 11, 2005

simon silverdollar said:
so many bad things seem to be bound up in the notion of 'funkiness', in that it tends to be the self-description of wacky muso types unwittingly (or not) removing themselves from the things that made the music that supposedly influenced them interesting and fun

4 hero being a case in point. how could they change from being the most cutting-edge avant garde rave outfit (that were so far ahead at the time that they left a lot of ravers confused) to end up doing slick note-perfect covers of jazz funk classics? utterly disapointing.

i guess it depends how you define funk. is it defined by the sonic cliches of rhodes keyboards, wine bar grooves - a yearning for "authenticity" & "sophistication", harking back to an era of vituoso musicallity - almost like a lot of electronic artists feel like their work isn't real music or something.

as soon as i hear something with these cliches, it makes me want to retch, the same as you. but on the other hand, i like a lot of what i would call music that is funky, even if its not labelled as such. i'm including things like jungle, electro, even jacking house tracks in this. i like to believe its the spirit of funk thats being embraced here rather than some boring retrogressive jazz samples.

Jim Daze · May 11, 2005

In Brighton funk is like a virus that has penetrated the root core of the towns musical night life, there are literally hundreds of funk nights.

I feel your pain Simon.

Rachel Verinder · May 11, 2005

About 4Hero; it seems to be a failing of cutting-edge British black music that artists seem duty bound to "mature" and make "real" music. Thus the similar groans which emanated from yours truly when faced with albums in the '90s by the likes of Peshay and Grooverider - aargh! those Nordic winds! those Herbie Hancock Fender Rhodes chords! The new Roll Deep album's a bit like that as well (and from what I've heard of the tracks Stevie Nixed posted up, ditto the Lady Sovereign album); why in the name of all that is holy should they want to try and make a Proper R&B Record? I mean, it worked wonders for So Solid, didn't it? How many weeks was it before that second album of theirs was remaindered in HMV for £5.99? Two? Three?

gumdrops · May 11, 2005

i seriously think wiley might just be the funkiest producer in grime, right now. apart from some of the other older producers like geeneus. terror danjah, some of his stuff is funky too, but a lot of grime isnt really funky at all (stuff like tings in boots or take you out) to my dissapointment. i think its down to the producers trying to be over melodic when theyve got little musical dexterity. wiley doesnt overdo the melodic element in his music like a lot of rapid beats, he keeps it tight and rhythmic, for the most part. not wanting to turn this into a grime-bashing post or anything, just following up on the black british music theme. some broken beat is pretty funky, a lot of is far too quasi-sophisticated for its own good though.

hint · May 11, 2005

gumdrops said:
i seriously think wiley might just be the funkiest producer in grime, right now. apart from some of the other older producers like geeneus. terror danjah, some of his stuff is funky too, but a lot of grime isnt really funky at all (stuff like tings in boots or take you out) to my dissapointment.

agreed - wiley, danny weed and terror danjah all have a swing in their beats that is certainly lacking in a lot of uk underground productions. but, having said that, I'm not sure that a lot of grime is made with dancing in mind.

not wanting to turn this into a grime-bashing post or anything, just following up on the black british music theme. some broken beat is pretty funky, a lot of is far too quasi-sophisticated for its own good though.

absolutely... but I don't agree with this idea that it's quasi- this or "mature" and "real" that... remember that a lot of these guys (dego, bugz etc) aren't exactly teenagers. they're not trying to be mature, it just comes out naturally.

many broken beat heads see this kind of "mature music for mature musicians" tag as a badge of honour... I think it's a dead end, personally - particularly since it's often pushed as a dancefloor thing.

occasional curveballs such as dego's this ain't tom and jerry or mark force's gypo will always pop up to remind you of their pedigree in the early UK dance scene, but on the whole I think both the artists and a certain section of the fans have a bit of a "been there, done that" attitude to rave / party music.

bassnation · May 11, 2005

Rachel Verinder said:
About 4Hero; it seems to be a failing of cutting-edge British black music that artists seem duty bound to "mature" and make "real" music. Thus the similar groans which emanated from yours truly when faced with albums in the '90s by the likes of Peshay and Grooverider - aargh! those Nordic winds! those Herbie Hancock Fender Rhodes chords! The new Roll Deep album's a bit like that as well (and from what I've heard of the tracks Stevie Nixed posted up, ditto the Lady Sovereign album); why in the name of all that is holy should they want to try and make a Proper R&B Record? I mean, it worked wonders for So Solid, didn't it? How many weeks was it before that second album of theirs was remaindered in HMV for £5.99? Two? Three?

agree with you there - apart from a minor quibble - its not just black music that succumbs to this, and i'd also resist pigeonholing 4 hero like that - jungle included everyone remember, thats what was so strong and liberating about it.

gumdrops · May 11, 2005

hint said:
agreed - wiley, danny weed and terror danjah all have a swing in their beats that is certainly lacking in a lot of uk underground productions. but, having said that, I'm not sure that a lot of grime is made with dancing in mind.

it doesnt really matter, i dont think wiley or targets or terror's beats are made with dancing in mind either, but they arent mechanical, robotic, stiff, or so ahem, 'effortless' (not in the good way) sounding as a lot of guys beats.

hint said:
absolutely... but I don't agree with this idea that it's quasi- this or "mature" and "real" that... remember that a lot of these guys (dego, bugz etc) aren't exactly teenagers. they're not trying to be mature, it just comes out naturally.

agreed but it doesnt mean they have to buy into that whole idea of maturity = boring, devoid of energy, no rough edges, etc etc. not saying they should age ungracefully, just not feel because they ARE mature, that they have to start sounding like a rotary connection tribute act and exemplify sophistication, 'classiness' and all the rest of it.

hint said:
many broken beat heads see this kind of "mature music for mature musicians" tag as a badge of honour... I think it's a dead end, personally - particularly since it's often pushed as a dancefloor thing.

they do, absolutely. a lot of them actually seem to want broken beat to turn into full-on live music again, or at least more musical, and not so programmed/dancey etc etc, as thats what the aim is, i suppose. thats still seen as the pinnacle of musical achievement. i was actualy chatting to a producer from west london the other week who said he thought more BB guys going 'musical' was what he wanted to see.

hint said:
occasional curveballs such as dego's this ain't tom and jerry or mark force's gypo will always pop up to remind you of their pedigree in the early UK dance scene, but on the whole I think both the artists and a certain section of the fans have a bit of a "been there, done that" attitude to rave / party music.

well, broken beat IS still dance-music, just not a 'direct', instantaneous one. ive seen everyone dance to 4hero and things like that at neo soul-type nights. so broken beat is kinda fulfilling the role for people who want modern black dance music but like the old 70s template too. shame a lot of it sometimes bears a few too many traces of fuzak or 80s/90s 'light' soul and jazz.

im behind on broken beat though so who knows what its sounding like these days.

Blackdown · May 11, 2005

funky house. *shudder*

gumdrops · May 11, 2005

amp fiddler.

hint · May 11, 2005

gumdrops said:
well, broken beat IS still dance-music, just not a 'direct', instantaneous one. ive seen everyone dance to 4hero and things like that at neo soul-type nights. so broken beat is kinda fulfilling the role for people who want modern black dance music but like the old 70s template too. shame a lot of it sometimes bears a few too many traces of fuzak or 80s/90s 'light' soul and jazz.

sure - that's why I was careful to use the words "rave / party music". I don't dispute the fact that there are pockets in clubland where this music is making people dance and cheer... I support it as much as I can - the same goes for grime. in both genres there are tracks which just work (with the kinds of crowds I play to), all around the world... but you have to tread carefully, even with the scene "anthems".

simon silverdollar · May 11, 2005

bassnation said:
i guess it depends how you define funk. is it defined by the sonic cliches of rhodes keyboards, wine bar grooves - a yearning for "authenticity" & "sophistication", harking back to an era of vituoso musicallity - almost like a lot of electronic artists feel like their work isn't real music or something.

as soon as i hear something with these cliches, it makes me want to retch, the same as you. but on the other hand, i like a lot of what i would call music that is funky, even if its not labelled as such. i'm including things like jungle, electro, even jacking house tracks in this. i like to believe its the spirit of funk thats being embraced here rather than some boring retrogressive jazz samples.

well my problem isn't with 'funky' stuff in the sense of rhythmic stuff that's good to dance to. obviously that's a good thing.

my problem is with music that is specifically referred to as 'funky'; that's what always raises alarm bells. it's usually this fatal combination of pseudo-'sophistication', with smirking, emotionally dead archness.

oh, and fuck the cult of 'rare groove' as well.

blissblogger · May 11, 2005

the funny thing about funk is that originally it didn't mean slick, jazzy-noodly, elegant etc -- it meant dirty, raw, stripped down, gritty, earthy etc etc

funk in that original sense like sly stone or the meters or james brown is fantastic... or later P-funk in their synth-bass stage

a lot of early 70s hard 'n' heavy rock is actually really funky -- the drums in sabbath's 'war pigs' are virtually breakbeats (and in fact get sampled on the Kano album!), groups like James Gang ('funk #49'.. ), aerosmith, led zep 'black dog'... not forgetting Can...

actually the late 70s jazzy-slick funk can be pretty neat, roy ayers did some real groovy-spacy stuff that makes me see why 4hero bukem et al are so hung-up on that period as the Golden Age

but otherwise, totally concur with the Other Simon

funki porcini has got to be one of the most stomach turning names ever -- the two 'i''s!

trip hop turned so quick from something so great to something so awful

dominic · May 11, 2005

soul_pill said:
What about 'Funky Funk Funk' by Reese?

not the least bit funky in my opinion

however, i think "funky zulu" by the moody boys is ultra funky

jenks · May 11, 2005

agree to the idea that if it has funky in the titile and is post 78 it probably isn't cf the headhunters god made me funky with the latest black eyed peas 'phunk' single - let the listener be the judge of that which is funky

dominic · May 11, 2005

hint said:
but on the whole I think both the artists and a certain section of the fans [of the broken beats scene] have a bit of a "been there, done that" attitude to rave / party music.

yeah, that's my sense of it as well

they were "there" when it happened -- they made it happen -- and now they've moved on

tis a shame that what they've moved on to is so boring . . . .

but what you can you say?

try to convince someone who understands things better than you do -- i.e., they did it first and they had the best scene ever -- that you're right and they're wrong???

dominic · May 11, 2005

dominic said:
i think "funky zulu" by the moody boys is ultra funky

errrr, this is despite the fact that you could probably cite this song as a precursor for the really lame "wackiness" of so much trip hop

bun-u · May 11, 2005

yes, I get what you mean simon....the word 'funk' has been appropriated and now means all things horrible. especially annoying is it's use in a non-music context, like 'hey that's kinda funky!' I refused to speak to someone at work for the rest of the day when they described a project as funky.

funkiness

simon silverdollar

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