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Thread: FINNEGANS WAKE.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    The copy I'm reading calls itself the 'corrected version'. What does the uncorrected version look like, and how could you tell? Did he accidentally write an early version that had made basic syntactic sense and had a conventional narrative?

    I'm imagining Joyce furiously writing to his publisher after receiving a copy of the first edition: "You imbeciles! Didn't you spot the misspelling of 'bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronn tuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth' on the very first page?!"
    Joyce's stuff is notorious for misprints, bootleg versions and so on. Scholars argue over spelling mistakes, punctuation and all sorts in both the original and 'corrected' texts so it's just some academic's take on how it should be presented. I doubt anyone outside that world would be able to tell the difference without someone pointing it out. People argue over stuff like where the full stops should be in certain sentences in Ulysses.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    People argue over stuff like where the full stops should be in certain sentences in Ulysses.
    Joyce's biographer, Richard Ellmann, writes about this here: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...yce-ideal.html

    It appears that the famous telegram from Simon Dedalus to Stephen did not read when delivered to him in Paris, ''Mother dying come home father,'' but ''Nother dying come home father.'' Hence it was, as Stephen recalls, a ''curiosity to show.'' The typesetters could not believe their eyes in this instance, nor in another when the black horn fan held by the ''whoremistress'' Bella Cohen asks, ''Have you forgotten me?'' and is answered, ''Nes. Yo.'' They changed it to ''Yes. No.''

  3. #18
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    Joyce might have been richly satisfied by all this academic debate

    If I gave it all up immediately, I'd lose my immortality. I've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant, and that's the only way of insuring one's immortality.
    Joyce's reply for a request for a plan of Ulysses, as quoted in James Joyce (1959) by Richard Ellmann

  4. #19
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    this is getting too quotidian.

  5. #20
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    Lukkedoerendunandurraskewdylooshoofermoyportertoor yzooysphalnabortansporthaokansakroidverjkapakkapuk

  6. #21
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    so what i know from looking it up is that this thunder, the 6th thunder, as well as beginning with my name (LUKE, the artist. looshoofer is Luke's Hoofer, his winged ox or bull) is about doors

    Lukke doeren - Dan. 'close the door'
    hoofer moyporter - Fr. fermez la porte, 'close the door'
    toory zoo: Ger. Tuer zu, 'shut the door'
    sakroidverj: Rus. zakroj dver' , 'shut the door'

    looshoofer as roland mchugh points out is also Lucifer

    and is also
    doer and done, actor and act at once. un and ur (zero and one)
    but what i've just noticed is the porter doesn't just refer to the famous pint of porter please but
    also to the porter in Macbeth and the knock, knock occurs right at the end of this thunder
    (while also giving a nod to k-punk)

    Knocking within. Enter a Porter

    Porter

    Here's a knocking indeed! If a
    man were porter of hell-gate, he should have
    old turning the key.

    Knocking within
    Knock,
    knock, knock! Who's there, i' the name of
    Beelzebub? Here's a farmer, that hanged
    himself on the expectation of plenty: come in
    time; have napkins enow about you; here
    you'll sweat for't.

    Knocking within
    Knock,
    knock! Who's there, in the other devil's
    name? Faith, here's an equivocator, that could
    swear in both the scales against either scale;
    who committed treason enough for God's sake,
    yet could not equivocate to heaven: O, come
    in, equivocator.

    Knocking within
    Knock,
    knock, knock! Who's there? Faith, here's an
    English tailor come hither, for stealing out of
    a French hose: come in, tailor; here you may
    roast your goose.

    Knocking within
    Knock,
    knock; never at quiet! What are you? But
    this place is too cold for hell. I'll devil-porter
    it no further: I had thought to have let in
    some of all professions that go the primrose
    way to the everlasting bonfire.

    Knocking within
    Anon, anon! I pray you, remember the porter.

    Opens the gate


    here is the confirmation for the macbeth reference a few pages beforehand

    "for a burning would is come to dance inane"
    Last edited by luka; 29-06-2018 at 10:49 PM.

  7. #22
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Joyce's stuff is notorious for misprints, bootleg versions and so on. Scholars argue over spelling mistakes, punctuation and all sorts in both the original and 'corrected' texts so it's just some academic's take on how it should be presented. I doubt anyone outside that world would be able to tell the difference without someone pointing it out. People argue over stuff like where the full stops should be in certain sentences in Ulysses.
    I can imagine that for the sort of person who gets obsessed with things like this, each of his books is like the Qu'ran and ceases to be the original text, with its integral magickal potency, if so much as a single letter is out of place.
    Doin' the Lambeth Warp New: DISSENSUS - THE NOVEL - PM me your email address and I'll add you

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    In case you haven't read it yet, there has been an entertaining long-read in the NYTimes about John Kidd: an academic once famed as the greatest Joyce scholar ever, who started talking to birds and then disappeared. I am fond of people able to lose their minds about the correct punctuation of two periods in a book hundreds of pages long.

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  11. #25
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    i was just having a chat with the grapejuice guy about leap years in the wake.
    joyce was born in febuary on a leap year and they have some kind of special significance
    for him (http://groupnameforgrapejuice.blogsp...ity-too-1.html
    432 was also a leap year)
    but my suspicion is that leap years appeal to him because they point to the basic inadequacy and arbitrariness of numerical systems and divisions. that all the numbers in the wake, all the numerical mysticism of 1s and 0s, 2s, 4s and 12s, of 108 and 432 is being sent up. useful as structuring devices but failing to account for reality. the blueprint maybe mathematical but in practice there is always a slight deviation, an imbalance, and it is that very deviation and imbalance that history emerges from.

    heronboneMay 9, 2016 at 11:10 AM

    Something quite extraordinary just happened and it ended with 432, which was also, as puck would have it, a leap year
    (2016 was a leap year.)

    What forces combined and clashing? And in what ratio?
    What hodgepodge system of imbalanced and misaligned energies toppling into future? And what could nudge the Whole into harmony?

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  13. #27
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    https://archive.org/stream/WyndhamLe...Book1_djvu.txt

    essential reading. pertains especially to the ondt and the gracehopper. lewis gets cast as one of the sets of twins with joyce being the other half of the dyad.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    https://archive.org/stream/WyndhamLe...Book1_djvu.txt

    essential reading. pertains especially to the ondt and the gracehopper. lewis gets cast as one of the sets of twins with joyce being the other half of the dyad.
    .

    I have said to myself that I will fix my attention upon those things that
    have most meaning for me. All that seems to me to contradict or threaten
    those things I will do my best to modify or to defeat, and whatever I see
    that favours and agrees with those things I will support and do my best
    to strengthen. In consequence, I shall certainly be guilty of injustice, the
    heraclitean ‘injustice of the opposites.’ But how can we evade our destiny of
    being ‘an opposite,’ except by becoming some grey mixture, that is in reality
    just nothing at all?

  15. #29
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    James Joyce’s Finnegans Wake has been described as many things, from a masterpiece to unreadable nonsense. But it is also, according to scientists at the Institute of Nuclear Physics in Poland, almost indistinguishable in its structure from a purely mathematical multifractal.

    The academics put more than 100 works of world literature, by authors from Charles Dickens to Shakespeare, Alexandre Dumas, Thomas Mann, Umberto Eco and Samuel Beckett, through a detailed statistical analysis. Looking at sentence lengths and how they varied, they found that in an “overwhelming majority” of the studied texts, the correlations in variations of sentence length were governed by the dynamics of a cascade – meaning that their construction is a fractal: a mathematical object in which each fragment, when expanded, has a structure resembling the whole.

    “All of the examined works showed self-similarity in terms of organisation of the lengths of sentences. Some were more expressive – here The Ambassadors by Henry James stood out – others to far less of an extreme, as in the case of the French 17th-century romance Artamene ou le Grand Cyrus. However, correlations were evident, and therefore these texts were the construction of a fractal,” said Dr Paweł Oświęcimka from the Institute of Nuclear Physics of the Polish Academy of Sciences, one of the authors of the new paper Quantifying Origin and Character of Long-range Correlations in Narrative Texts.

    Some works, however, were more mathematically complex than others, with stream-of-consciousness narratives the most complex, comparable to multifractals, or fractals of fractals. Finnegans Wake, the scientists found, was the most complex of all.

    “The absolute record in terms of multifractality turned out to be Finnegans Wake by James Joyce. The results of our analysis of this text are virtually indistinguishable from ideal, purely mathematical multifractals,” said Professor Stanisław Drożdż, another author of the paper, which has just been published in the computer science journal Information Sciences.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ke-james-joyce

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