QUESTION/DO YOU BELEIVE IN FALSE CONSCIOUSNESS?

luka

Well-known member
do you beleive people get tricked by other people into thinking things
they would be better off not thinking? yes or no?

i do of course. you'd have to be a proper mug or have a vested interest
in pretending it doesnt happen to deny it.
 

Leo

Well-known member
2016 American presidential election provides a definitive answer to that question.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I think it’s clear that people believe things or act in ways which are against their interests and those of wider society.

The problems start with what is to be done about that. Liberals and Leninists both seem to favour a top down “educating the thick proles” model.
 

luka

Well-known member
killing the liars at the top would be better. machine gun em down
dugga-dugga-dugga-dugga
do the lot of them in a hail of beautiful bullets.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Classic liberal mistake.

The problems are structural and not because of a few individuals are bad.

We need to dismantle the machinery which produces these people. Not create martyrs. Innit.
 

luka

Well-known member
Classic liberal mistake.

The problems are structural and not because of a few individuals are bad.

We need to dismantle the machinery which produces these people. Not create martyrs. Innit.

classic apologist for evil. wheres the artillery?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
2016 American presidential election provides a definitive answer to that question.

And Brexit, obviously. Plus the number of people who think climate change is a 'conspiracy', the anti-vaxx movement and all of that.

Edit: religion in general, arguably.

I mean the answer is so obviously 'yes' the question seems a bit redundant tbh.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Good question.

I hate the way this sort of thinking privileges horrible wanker Marxists (all the Marxists are wankers apart from Jon). I'm reminded of the guy from Class War I used to know - kinda guy who had his head down the toilet at school and had evolved his politics in response to that.

It's still a sitting outside/above people rather than actually talking to them and listening.
 

luka

Well-known member
And Brexit, obviously. Plus the number of people who think climate change is a 'conspiracy', the anti-vaxx movement and all of that.

Edit: religion in general, arguably.

I mean the answer is so obviously 'yes' the question seems a bit redundant tbh.

classic cop answer.
 

luka

Well-known member
there was a lot of pushback against this idea for years. to the point where if id asked this question a decade ago i would have a very different and indignant set of answers.
 

droid

Well-known member
Classic liberal mistake.

The problems are structural and not because of a few individuals are bad.

We need to dismantle the machinery which produces these people. Not create martyrs. Innit.

You have to do both. Individuals have the ability to have a significant influence on events. Thats why death squads in the US have been assassinating BLM activists.

This is serious business. We're at war, and the other side has no qualms.
 

droid

Well-known member
Oil execs too. Anyone who profits from the misery of people and the destruction of the biosphere. Bullet in the head.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I kinda think the concept of false consciousness is a bit out of date. I'm thinking of all the work on cognitive biases done by people like Dan Kahneman (Thinking Fast & Slow). Amazing to think we've had anything approaching a consensual politics at all after reading this - his book shows pretty clearly that biases are pretty deeply inbuilt.

Jon Haidt's The Righteous Mind is another interesting take.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
As much as I admire the optimism being displayed by the armchair Gramscis here, can I ask what provisions you imagine putting in place to ensure that your revolution doesn't end in tyranny and unimaginable amounts of death? Ta.
 
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