QUESTION/DO YOU BELEIVE IN FALSE CONSCIOUSNESS?

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I believe in compulsory MRI scans to identify the psychopaths amongst us. Once identified, they are forced to wear red contact lenses and devil horns.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I think it’s clear that people believe things or act in ways which are against their interests and those of wider society.

The problems start with what is to be done about that. Liberals and Leninists both seem to favour a top down “educating the thick proles” model.

Well Lenin got his marxism from kautsky so on this issue i think he is to blame. But then there's veering to the other end where anti-intellectualism is exalted or whatever. education should be a collective affair and plenty of proles have been educated communists/anarchists/whatever.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
As much as I admire the optimism being displayed by the armchair Gramscis here, can I ask what provisions you imagine putting in place to ensure that your revolution doesn't end in tyranny and unimaginable amounts of death? Ta.

Gramsci was stalin's hatchet job man actually. you'd know this if you studied italian communism.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
they made those choises. the 'machinery' didnt force them to do it.

they don't, their class forces them to. you never accumulate for yourself, that's a myth. This is why a capitalist can extol the virtues of prudence and thrift to his workers but everyone else is eyed with avaricious lust.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Good question.

I hate the way this sort of thinking privileges horrible wanker Marxists (all the Marxists are wankers apart from Jon). I'm reminded of the guy from Class War I used to know - kinda guy who had his head down the toilet at school and had evolved his politics in response to that.

It's still a sitting outside/above people rather than actually talking to them and listening.

im glad u have such a high opinion of me mate.

ive never been in class war. actually ive never joined any leftist organisation. no reading groups either. marxism hermitism for me.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
And Brexit, obviously. Plus the number of people who think climate change is a 'conspiracy', the anti-vaxx movement and all of that.

Edit: religion in general, arguably.

I mean the answer is so obviously 'yes' the question seems a bit redundant tbh.

Er excuse me i didn't vote in your poncy referendum.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
As much as I admire the optimism being displayed by the armchair Gramscis here, can I ask what provisions you imagine putting in place to ensure that your revolution doesn't end in tyranny and unimaginable amounts of death? Ta.

Aim to create a society that attends to people's psychological as well as material needs; prior to which, try to make sure your revolution isn't helmed by psychopaths likely to use idealism as an excuse to kill people. Difficult ask, of course, but no-one said it was gonna be easy.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
at this point my attempt to stop you would probably be quite weary. I'm not sure he's "the" (there are so many) problem as such, so much as a manifestation of previously existing problems - e.g. a left-wing that hasn't practically reinvented itself for the 21st century, despite a mountain of useful theory being produced by which to do so aka the Left needs its Mont Pelerin Society
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
you seen di linke trying to meet AfD half way?

cynical cultural capital.

i don't believe in voting. but if i did and i wasn't a filthy brown barbarian then why shouldn't i vote for the right.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
classic apologist for evil. wheres the artillery?

Evil is a weird religious concept.

We’ll give the guns to the women. Avoid all that macho military stuff.

Killing Corbyn or Trump or an oil baron in isolation will only make things far far worse. Look what happens when a cop gets killed.

Understand the balance of forces.

Build communities of resistance. Then arm them. Not the other way round.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Also thirdform is probably right to be irked at Danny’s comments about Marxists. But probably Danny has met a lot of plonkers in his time also.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
they made those choises. the 'machinery' didnt force them to do it.

The machinery rewards people richly for making those choices. Not everyone will make them. But more than the amount needed to keep the shitshow running will crawl through a mile of broken glass just to be in with a chance to be asked.

If that changes, the rewards will increase even more.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Well that's pretty much exactly my point right there.

haha no mate. the classic leftist/liberal interpretation of gramsci is a great theorist of hegemony who was stalin's victim. nothing could be further from the truth. Gramsci sided with Togliatti against the Italian left opposition and the committee of intesa. against the policy of bolshevisation applied by the comintern headed by Zenoviev.

the left ideologically refused to capitulate to the nonsense of united fronts, crossclass antifa and the idiocy of a 'workers government.'

lol. I'm not a leninist but the italian ultraleft was pretty muchthe the only movement to originate from Leninism who went against market socialism and didn't believe in the puerile shit of a state being able to form a mode of production. whereas the trots and even those who broke away saw socialism as being congealed in the state form. State capitalism! what nonsense — capitalism plain and simple. the state is always subordinate to the imperatives of global capital.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Also thirdform is probably right to be irked at Danny’s comments about Marxists. But probably Danny has met a lot of plonkers in his time also.

im definitely not hurt lol in fact i'd probably hand it to him... and from his postings on Syria he def knows whats up compared to most so called marxists with a hard on for assad.
 
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