thirdform

pass the sick bucket
i couldn't tell you the foggiest about wot esra pound is getting to in the cantos, although knowing his rancid politics i would assume it is a path that leads nowhere.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
This stuff was certainly cool but also became disappointing later on.

I hated the Future Garage and sort of... Well the stuff Corpse became a fan of (not to rag on him specifically, just I know he rated Brackles highly and I couldn't stand the music him and his associates made)

Once the Night Slugs wave became super dominant and pretentious about their parasitism, their "Advanced Club Music" that's when I felt I had to start taking a break from the present conversations of dance music personally and just go backwards in time.

I'm a big fan of people in this scene like Untold, Blawan, James Blake, some of the Instra:mental stuff... But it ultimately became a scene I got disillusioned with due to a sort of... inadequacy.
 

luka

Well-known member
we should work out what the values of post-dubstep were/are. what headspace did it want to live inside of. what body-feel. what sensations did it covet?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the confusion comes about because some of the producers will use elements that refer to or originated with those brock out kinds of music, they tap into that history

that was well put. one of those things that seem obvious after someone else has concisely laid it out.

made me think of the other hardcore (punk), for example Minor Threat->Embrace->Fugazi, Jawbreaker, etc)->Sunny Day Real Estate etc->Fall Out Boy etc

it's a form of recuperation, among other things, e.g. ardkore->jungle->garage->dubstep>post-dubstep
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
at least in rave there is a hankering for the re-formed human community. in rock there is none of that.
idk man I think maybe rock is just further along in that recuperative process, hence more ossified, moribund, whatever

at the outset it had something of that. beset by hustlers and ambition and whatever, but so was rave even in its halcyon days like anything.

whenever a culture has been codified it's ossified and its best days are probably long past, like chivalry in the Tudor era

what I'm saying really is Hyph Mngo is the Hagakure of rave music
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
also just b/c I'm curious I'm assuming that Peverelist track is namechecking Shut Up and Dance?

seems a perfect example of non-brock out music referencing brock-out history in a possibly confusing manner
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
we should work out what the values of post-dubstep were/are. what headspace did it want to live inside of. what body-feel. what sensations did it covet?

I was going to say - why is that overeducated types can't make bangers? (Assuming that's true.) Too brainy, not enough feely?
 

droid

Well-known member
Ah, but cant they?


But the enthusiast of separations, seeking paths unhaunted by the hordes, withdraws to the extreme margin and follows the rim of the circle, which he cannot cross so long as he is subject to the body; yet Consciousness soars farther, quite pure in an ennui without beings or objects. No longer suffering, superior to the excuses which invite dying, Consciousness forgets the man who supports it. More unreal than a star glimpsed in some hallucination, it suggests the condition of a sidereal pirouette—while on life’s circumference the soul promenades, meeting only itself over and over again, itself and its impotence to answer the call of the Void.

EM Cioran: A Short History of Decay (1949), 1 Directions for Decomposition, Promenade around the Circumference
 

firefinga

Well-known member
I was going to say - why is that overeducated types can't make bangers? (Assuming that's true.) Too brainy, not enough feely?

Best pop music, at least in my view, always came from people with a working class background. Music used to be a way to escape the drudgery of crappy shit-jobs.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Is the idea then that music takes on a certain life affirming urgency when people are doing it to survive or escape, whereas the middle classes are too comfortable to really stretch themselves? In other words, a question of economic necessity rather than books?
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
The streets are the best catalyst for visceral music. All the great dance music started there. That doesn't mean the people who made it were not smart. They were maybe just more in tune with their instincts and able to access certain feelings much easier.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Is the idea then that music takes on a certain life affirming urgency when people are doing it to survive or escape, whereas the middle classes are too comfortable to really stretch themselves? In other words, a question of economic necessity rather than books?

I think being a bit embarrassed about properly letting go is quite a (straight, white, male) middle class tendency. Hence the protective shield of irony or play-acting that you often get when middle class do want to really let rip (eg breakcore or whatever).

I also think it's partly a scene thing rather than an individual scene - like, people who are properly involved in a scene where just unselfconsciously going for it is the norm are more likely to do that regardless of their personal background.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Is the idea then that music takes on a certain life affirming urgency when people are doing it to survive or escape, whereas the middle classes are too comfortable to really stretch themselves? In other words, a question of economic necessity rather than books?

There's probably also a thing that if you're a middle class student who's into grime and funky and most of your peers are into indie or minimal techno or whatever, then at least subconsciously you feel like you need to justify yourself, which gives you a slight self-conscious drive to try to make things a bit clever and different rather than being comfortable playing it totally straight.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
There's probably also a thing that if you're a middle class student who's into grime and funky and most of your peers are into indie or minimal techno or whatever, then at least subconsciously you feel like you need to justify yourself, which gives you a slight self-conscious drive to try to make things a bit clever and different rather than being comfortable playing it totally straight.

Yeah this is interesting

I wonder also if the tendency of higher education is to complicate things and on some level that feeds into how you make music (or any art)

Another factor might be the sort of influences you are taking in - e.g. middle class kids might be more likely to be exposed to classical music and so on

Wary of stereotyping here of course there are a million exceptions to such 'rules' but it's worth thinking about i suppose, especially as this 'goldsmiths students are incapable of genuine emotions' meme spreads like wildfire from luka's infernal centre 🔥
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
the phrase 'post dubstep' depresses me

I think some of the best music from this little era/scene came from people with deeper roots in the sounds influencing them - e.g. peverelist clearly was somebody who'd listened to and understood both jungle and techno

Whereas a lot of ppl around that time were like me (I just never got my shit together to make music) - they suddenly discovered garage, techno, house etc. in one go and wanted to get involved, and merge them...
 
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