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Thread: the conservative view of history

  1. #1
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    Default the conservative view of history

    What is its appeal? We live under such complex systems with all sorts of emergent and unpredictable interactions. Even in some respect one could say that the 19th-20th century revolutionary histories have failed, and their post-structural critiques have just become impotent and wibbly. So what is the actual appeal of an approach that for instance sees certain states as having a brotherly approach towards others where the statesman is privileged? Do people really believe that the mystification of our social relations are just a propaganda? if that is really the case then radicals have been wasting their time and all they need to do is create their own propaganda campaign.

    We were discussing assad's belligerence and someone was like the turkish state should have adopted the role of an elder sibling. this would have averted catastrophe. All I managed was a hollow chuckle, eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    What is its appeal?
    Simplicity.

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    Part of the simplicity is the enduring appeal of The Great Man.

    Who will save us all.

    Or, for ego maniacs, you might become.

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    fear. fear of "the other", fear of change. the old world -- which was always better -- slipping away to the benefit of someone else. being left behind, abandoned by liberal leaders who are always chipping away at the foundation of life as they knew it.

    some conservative voters feel they work hard, only to be heavily taxed by the liberal nanny state to support layabouts on social services. on a national security and foreign policy level, conservative has evolved to mean strength through military might, which many people take comfort in.

    I'm not conservative, but can understand why some people are. maybe the notion doesn't make sense in the abstract, when considered on an academic level, but it does for many people on a real-world level.

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    it's a weird one though isn't it. the conservative can acknowledge labour, can acknowledge that we live in a commodified society. But they struggle to understand the form of the commodity or the necessity of labour reaching a high level of abstraction.

    Of course they could argue that we all are a brain in a vat but many don't.

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    they cannot understand that one cannot comprehend the form of money otherwise it would lose all of its utility and negate itself.

    Sure, one could understand it after exchange, but not as a process in itself in the process of exchange. it is a reality with a transcendental unknowingness.

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    what is the "conservative view of history"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vimothy View Post
    what is the "conservative view of history"?
    must admit i was asking myself the same question

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    personal as opposed to impersonal domination. the naturalisation of personal domination as transhistorical. I am trying to make an opening in theory to encapsulate the conservative tendancies of the left as well.

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    greedy bankers. states printing money at will.

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    good vs bad nations.

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    Thomas Carlyle

    Thucydides as opposed to Herotodus

    Austrian School as opposed to Frankfurt School

    The Practice of History as opposed to What Is History

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  15. #13
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    it depends what one means by conservative but there are uniting qualities throughout

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    they cannot understand that one cannot comprehend the form of money otherwise it would lose all of its utility and negate itself
    (I think) I understand the Marxist analysis of exchange value etc but I've never understood their prescriptive replacement

    like what would de-abstract (concretize? factualize? probably there's a theory term I don't know) labor, commodities, exchange? realistically, I mean

    maybe it's ignorance or a failure of imagination but it surely seems like there's no going back to a time before abstraction and the automated future looks grim

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    the withering away of the state seems a lot more likely to produce a dystopia than the obverse, at least to me. tech bro philosopher-kings, panopticon societies, etc.

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