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Thread: Dematerialisation.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    ok. i guess that's the end of the discussion. the internet is nothing new. digitalisation hasn't happened. dematerialisation is a figment of my imagination. i've got a dvd to watch anyway.
    Sure digitalisation has happened. But it never lived up to its utopian promises. it regressed back to old conservative forms.

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    There a lot more subtleties and nuances possible with Auto-Tune and Melodyne than there were with vocoder. You might be fatigued justifably through the over-exposure of the effect, but if you actually listen closely to a master of working with the technology e.g. Quavo there's a myriad ways of inflecting it

    Vocoder is "man-machine", robotic, i.e. less than human

    Auto-Tune is supra-human, hyper-soul

    Zapp used a talk box which is something else altogether - works in a different way from either vocoder or Auto-Tune. The instrumental signal is sent into the mouth by the tube, and the mouth works as a resonant chamber, an amplifier effectively, and then sent down the vocal microphone. So that you end up (with Roger Troutman, Frampton etc) with that "is it a guitar or is it a voice? it's both!" sound.

    But i think that's why talk box is so expressive and nuanced, it's because you've got all the intricacy of guitar playing (Troutman was a very skilled if not necessarily innovative guitarist), the note bending and Isley Brothers-ish addle-daddle, then that's being reshaped in the mouth as well, so it's proper musical, in a way that makes vocoder seem quite lumbering and crude by comparison.

    I should imagine - not ever having played guitar or anything - that the mouth operates on the guitar signal almost like a second hand, further inflecting it.

    I interviewed Troutman once and he said the tube got pretty smelly with saliva!

    First guy who used it was actually a country musician in the Sixties, i forget his name.
    Last edited by blissblogger; 27-09-2018 at 09:06 PM.

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    it regressed back to old conservative forms.
    I don't think Luka is really addressing the contents of digiculture, how people use it ... it's more about the phenomenology of digital life.

    Medium, rather than the messages, as it were.

    Our whole sense of time, space, intimacy, identity, it's all been shaken and rearranged.

    Things like being lost in a city, or being incommunicado, or anticipation / waiting for something, arranging a rendez-vous ... these are fundamentally altered in the new way of living life. Certain commonplace experiences of pre-internet life are on the way out.

    But let's talk about internet porn!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post

    First guy who used it was actually a country musician in the Sixties, i forget his name.
    This is the earliest vocoder effect I know of. Suitably dehumanised too.


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    I reckon this is the guy you're thinking of.


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  9. #21
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    Leads me back to this guy, who I think is imitating the robot with his voice, sans FX.


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    Another parallel with autotune, almost a mirror image - the birth of rock and roll and guitar distortion, which came about after Willie Kizart stuffed his amp with paper after it was damaged.


  11. #23
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    internet porn, droid was i saying this to you perhaps? maybe one of your mates, im convinced that the reemergence of the word 'cuckold' is entirely a product of internet porn. from my point of view most porn essentially entails watching the object of desire fucked by another person. that you are ennacting a virtual cuckolding of yourself. i also think a lot of the alt right rebranded racism can be linked (not entirely, but as contributory factor) to 10inch black cocks on the internet!

    i mean this actually. i think it's had huge and deep rooted psychological effects. and tellingly the most visible signs of anxiety come from the altright #nofap

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  13. #24
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    and it is another layer folded into your relationship with the screen. it comforts you. it arouses you. it disgusts you. it entertains you. it makes you feel guilty and wracked with self-loathing. it rewards you. it flatters you. it cons you. it cheats you. it tempts you.
    there's just such a huge and roiling emotional investment there. life is in that interface.

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    and again as i say, the screen is, to be so obvious its redundant, different to the world. you lose the tactile dimension. it's virtual. it's abstracted. it's a representation. it's within a frame.

    so i dont care who likes or doesnt like the aesthetic qualities, what seems more interesting is to ask how is this new (and it is new) mode of existence expressed and evoked in music?

    and how is digitisation and the complete loss of physical referents for sound playing into that? surely there is a synergy there?

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    even if you think of the production for migos, there's a flattening, you have far less of a sense of different 'instruments' being layered and spaced out than you would get in a 90s rza beat for instance.
    it's squished together and all individual sounds paradoxically seem to occupy the same coordinate points.

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  17. #27
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    it even seems worth thinking about something like brightness. the continual backlit screen. the loss of shade and tonal variety. the lack of texture. again this is part of the reason screen designed buildings never seem to leave the screen even after construction. they look like something on a screen still.
    and how often digital sound lacks texture (and weight, to a lesser degree). the feel of it as it travels over your skin.

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    does the screen really disconnect you from the world or is it that the world is becoming more and more inhospitable?

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    the senseless head banging brutalism of 20th century. architecture. constructive fascism without the fascists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdform View Post
    does the screen really disconnect you from the world or is it that the world is becoming more and more inhospitable?
    the screen is an environment as is the world outside. you can only be in one place at one time. you can be in a screen (computer game, internet, book, cave painting, television etc) or you can be in a city, or a forest, or a park or whatever.

    that's somewhat simplified as there is a bleed from one to another etc but the overall point stands i think. it's about immersion etc

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