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Thread: Dematerialisation.

  1. #631
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    that Materials poem is great, i'd forgotten about it - but it's very on point with the discussion also

  2. #632
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    "Madness" is probably exaggerating a bit, but I have certain eccentricities, which i think of as valves for the release of psychic steam

    But specifically in terms of the dematerialised lifestyle and the internet, i am locked into neurotic patterns of behaviour - mostly to do with data foraging and data hoarding, but other things too - and these activities are addictive, I am very aware that they are pointless and unhealthy, and when I'm engaged in them I often levitate above myself and think "you are literally killing time here" - and killing time in a sense is killing yourself. Your sense of that becomes very keen when you reach an advanced age like mine!

    You also become aware of how physically unhealthy it is, being locked into these screen habits. Breathing becomes shallower, heart rate increases like you've drunk one cup of coffee too many, eyes fixed rigidly at a very short distance, posture slumped and hunched, legs cramped. In fact I've recently developed some kind of arm muscle strain through excessive use of the mouse - particular movements of dragging and clicking related to these repetitious, addictive activities of foraging, hoarding, organising, blogging.

    If you can wrench yourself out of the screen / desk / seat set-up and out into the streets, for a walk - everything improves - muscles loosen, blood pumps, breathing deepens - the gaze stretches out to longer distances, or moves between close and far, as it's supposed to... your mood elevates within minutes... the mind clears... you have better thoughts...

    At the same time these screen-based habits of gathering and hoarding are related to what I do for a living - pattern recognition etc - so there's a sense in which I've made obsession-compulsive disorder work for me.

    it's on a spectrum - there's a way in which you can generate a certain kind of productive mania through rubbing ideas together and making connections, your mind starts racing, it's exhilarating

    but it can definitely go too far, it becomes a kind of mental conflagration

    K-punk's blog would go up and down on that spectrum
    Last edited by blissblogger; 11-10-2018 at 05:14 PM.

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  4. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    this is something i think is worth thinking through as well. the point at which you make the connection.
    my experience is that the 'higher' the point at which you want to make it is, the fewer people you will find to meet you there but correspondingly and paradoxically, the more universal the experience.

    if you think about the people you interact with regularly, both here and offline, just ask yourself where the point of contact is.
    It's a fair point, but I still think that the 'affect' (or choose whatever name you want for it) that manifests when two people meet in person, is a whole different level of communication...things which are avoidable online are no longer so, different stimuli. Even if you've been meeting minds at a high/deep level online. You have a whole world of qualifying information to deepen the experience/contact. In fact, I'd say that most times it makes you appreciate someone more.

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  6. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    I still use my first phone, one of those old Nokia things, there's definitely something about the click of an actual button. The phone itself is a talking point these days, I get people asking if they can play Snake all the time.
    Shameless flirtation

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  8. #635
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    i always always try and meet the people i enjoy talking to online in real life which implies i must agree with baboon i guess i just dont take such a Manichean view of the online/offline divide that's all.

  9. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    At the same time these screen-based habits of gathering and hoarding are related to what I do for a living - pattern recognition etc - so there's a sense in which I've made obsession-compulsive disorder work for me.
    I like this observation. Capitalism makes virtues of many conditions that it simultaneously vilifies if a person isn't successful, blurring the boundaries of illness - OCD seems quite an innocent one when that list contains full-on sociopathy.

  10. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    i always always try and meet the people i enjoy talking to online in real life which implies i must agree with baboon i guess i just dont take such a Manichean view of the online/offline divide that's all.
    It's an agreement.

    I don't see online communication as bad, just less 3D in every sense. I love online communication when it's happening, but it's the afterglow that recedes more quickly (also there's the addiction issue). I'm sitting here gently smiling as I write this, and later that smile will be gone.

  11. #638
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    where is my physical click for each press?
    again this is the absence of resistance i've been talking about. granted there is a modicum of muscular effort involved in the movement but what is missing is the sense of a world which pushes back, which, to look at it one way, actively opposes us..

  12. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post

    i learned this from being a young skunk addict. in my late teens i realised that every conversation has a subtext comprised of insult and mockery and attack. that because language is artfully ambiguous (and this is the whole point of finnegans wake) it can embed multiple meanings in the same phrase.

    and if you develop an ear for it you will know that friends and family as well as strangers, are tearing shreds off one another all the time. which is why i like the hashtags here because it's a kind of literalisation of that... the composed superego and ego above the line and the snarling, thrashing (and very funny and truthful) id beneath it.

    where you can run into serious problems is when you take that hidden id of any conversation, that hostility and scorn, for the only true reading of the text, or even just as more real, than the love and camaraderie and support which is also present and also very real and true.
    I want to talk about this more (not that I've started), but perhaps another thread is needed as it's a massive topic and absolutely don't want to derail dematerialisation

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  14. #640
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    and again this is where the disconnect happens when it comes to our deepest needs. the need for love and sex and companionship. the need to be understood. when we try to meet these needs we find the world does still push back, does still resist us. we are suddenly confronted with the one thing computers and the internet conspire never to give us, which is negative feedback. having to adapt our behaviour and our beliefs in response to failing and criticism.

    (although.... i am about to instantly contradict myself and say that one of the things i've found increasingly useful here on dissensus is the negative feedback. i think im getting better at manipulating my peers and leading them into the cult.....no, wait, i mean i think im getting better at listening and interacting and being patient.)

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  17. #642
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    in response to the big blissblogger post.... yes, but those are neurotic tendencies. what i respond to and what drew me to your writing and made me want to correspond with you were the traits that lie on the other end of that spectrum. not the holding on but the letting go. the kind of things you mentioned in regard to the hardcore essay from 1992. virtualy everything im talking about on this thread i could quite easily find correlates for in your writing, every idea and sensation. im very confident about that.

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  19. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
    It's a fair point, but I still think that the 'affect' (or choose whatever name you want for it) that manifests when two people meet in person, is a whole different level of communication...things which are avoidable online are no longer so, different stimuli. Even if you've been meeting minds at a high/deep level online. You have a whole world of qualifying information to deepen the experience/contact. In fact, I'd say that most times it makes you appreciate someone more.
    i do think there are disadvantages in the face to face model that need to be acknowledged. for instance the animal aspect of submission and dominance. the way large people often use that physical heft to subdue others. if you think of trump for instance, the way he loomed over Clinton in the debates.

    there is a whole dark side to the animal and the embodied that has to be factored in.

  20. #645
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    it's when that starts glowing that i'll start to worry (xpost)

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