shredders
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
shit all critics do that. it's a fundamental tenet of criticism. I don't hold it against no one, like I hope they wouldn't hold it against me.
if I am gonna write on something outside most general interest here I do try to keep it engaging, explicative
would hope some can read if they want and take something away, that's how I learned about plenty of things. plus, that quotable thread tag fodder.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I like how you guys keep trying to pretend shredding guitars is a fuck yeah America soaring eagles thing
heavy guitars are as English as tea and whatever you call those dumb sticks in cricket
you guys are the country of Judas Priest and Iron Maiden ffs. you had a whole wave of heavy metal named after you - NWOBHM.
embrace the shred my effete English friends.
heavy guitars are as English as tea and whatever you call those dumb sticks in cricket
you guys are the country of Judas Priest and Iron Maiden ffs. you had a whole wave of heavy metal named after you - NWOBHM.
embrace the shred my effete English friends.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
btw one other on-topic thing I keep forgetting to mention - the other big part of that guitars sea change, and what it really pulls it away from blues and blues-derived rock, is the transition to different scales, and ways of using those scales. it's beyond my music theory knowledge to explain this in-depth, but death metal uses a lot of scales in Phrygian mode, black metal in Locrian, they're both heavy into diminished scales, chromatic. it's a big reason why especially they don't sound rock - especially death metal, which is still usually pretty rock in strong structure and approach. conversely, I would guess a reason melodic death metal (At the Gates, In Flames, latter Carcass) sounds more "rock" - and is hence more accessible (or watered-down) - is a return to more rock-ish, less evil/alien-sounding scales, while maintaining other sonic markers like the downtuned guitars, death growl vocals, etc.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
There's also the city thing. Most Dissensian Brits are city boys Padraig. Go out into the country...
The wild...
Those swoop bangs and those snakebite piercings emerge. They still do Bring Me The Horizon out in them there woods. Scary stuff.
The wild...
Those swoop bangs and those snakebite piercings emerge. They still do Bring Me The Horizon out in them there woods. Scary stuff.
blissblogger
Well-known member
i'm not philosophically opposed to shreds, i just don't hear what's there to be enjoyed - or admired, even - in them.
i associate it as an 80s onward phenomenon, the blues feel disappearing in the rear-view mirror
there are certainly many, many empty feats of solo prowess in hard 'n' heavy rock of the 70s - that's why the Clash could do the ironic "you're my guitar hero" thing, it was a thing
but there's still more following through of a melodic line, more sense of development or going somewhere
shred i associate with scalar frenzy, this sort of frazzle of sound that's meant to communicate intensity or something - the problem of how to create a sense within music that already starts at 10 on the dial, of it going further - more wild, more frenzied
it's the polar opposite of that approach to music that says one of the most important things, or rather effective things, in music is silence - spacing
i associate it as an 80s onward phenomenon, the blues feel disappearing in the rear-view mirror
there are certainly many, many empty feats of solo prowess in hard 'n' heavy rock of the 70s - that's why the Clash could do the ironic "you're my guitar hero" thing, it was a thing
but there's still more following through of a melodic line, more sense of development or going somewhere
shred i associate with scalar frenzy, this sort of frazzle of sound that's meant to communicate intensity or something - the problem of how to create a sense within music that already starts at 10 on the dial, of it going further - more wild, more frenzied
it's the polar opposite of that approach to music that says one of the most important things, or rather effective things, in music is silence - spacing
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Been reading a book about personality psychology and it made me wonder if people who are into e.g. metal are wired differently so that they need more extremity to be stimulated. Whether that's in their genetics or their culture (for example living out in the boring sticks). It occured to me that all the metallers I have known have been remarkably calm, serene people - who listen to bands that scream about chainsawing nuns. I thought perhaps they get their aggression out through music but perhaps it's also that they have a higher threshold for excitement?
luka
Well-known member
my feeling is that shredding is what i call wriggling. an attempt to escape from the moment in its full weight and truth. music is the expression of the moment. shredding is bucking and writhing and wriggling to avoid that truth. in this sense all music of this nature is an attempt to do anything, absolutely anything, to avoid playing music. hence the increasingly elaborated nature of the shredding solo.
what it say is very very simple
DONT TOUCH ME!
what it say is very very simple
DONT TOUCH ME!
blissblogger
Well-known member
as to your other points:
the stab in hardcore is totally functional - it's a melody-riff, it works as hook and a rhythmic driver, it also works off Ecstasy both in the kind of textures used and in terms of its urgent pulse
the waves of amorphous guitar in MBV or whatever also function, in the sense of serving the music's purpose which is to make you swoon and lose a sense of your own boundaries, and connect to the aesthetico-political stance of the music which is surrender, basically
incidentally there may well be a function for shredding but it's one that doesn't function for me, or that I can't see the function of
beyond the sort of mini-drama of masculine prowess that it represents
there is something histrionic about the shred - in the root sense (histriones, an actor) - they are all for show - shows of strength, showing off - exhibitionist feats
or like a circus act - "wow!" (as opposed to "why?")
in a certain sense shreds also serve to connect 80s-onwards metal - which is really a pretty different beast - to the earlier stage of metal and the outsize role of the lead guitarist. by that point one of the definitions of metal was that it had noisy, pyrotechnical solos, and the shred is a sort of distillate of that - purified, all the blues residues burned off.
oh yes, for sure it's true that Meat Puppets by late Eighties turned into ZZ Top, i'm obviously talking about earlier on, with things like this which is expressive and quite Verlaine-y - an expansion of the blissed out feel of the song / lyric
the stab in hardcore is totally functional - it's a melody-riff, it works as hook and a rhythmic driver, it also works off Ecstasy both in the kind of textures used and in terms of its urgent pulse
the waves of amorphous guitar in MBV or whatever also function, in the sense of serving the music's purpose which is to make you swoon and lose a sense of your own boundaries, and connect to the aesthetico-political stance of the music which is surrender, basically
incidentally there may well be a function for shredding but it's one that doesn't function for me, or that I can't see the function of
beyond the sort of mini-drama of masculine prowess that it represents
there is something histrionic about the shred - in the root sense (histriones, an actor) - they are all for show - shows of strength, showing off - exhibitionist feats
or like a circus act - "wow!" (as opposed to "why?")
in a certain sense shreds also serve to connect 80s-onwards metal - which is really a pretty different beast - to the earlier stage of metal and the outsize role of the lead guitarist. by that point one of the definitions of metal was that it had noisy, pyrotechnical solos, and the shred is a sort of distillate of that - purified, all the blues residues burned off.
oh yes, for sure it's true that Meat Puppets by late Eighties turned into ZZ Top, i'm obviously talking about earlier on, with things like this which is expressive and quite Verlaine-y - an expansion of the blissed out feel of the song / lyric
Last edited:
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Whoah hold up there boy, are we still talking about sex?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
not sure how this can be called anything but philosophical opposition. if you want to quibble semantics and call the opposition aesthetic or whatever, OK.
either way the point is you, by your own admission, don't like it, don't understand it - not remotely, not on any level - and you seem, no offense, basically ignorant of the history, yet despite all that you still feel free to tell us why it is empty and worthless
which critique boils down to 2 things: 1) shredding is non-functional dickswinging excess 2) that is bad
1) is just wrong - shredding is function in the same way MBV waves are - the shredding is part both of the structure and the point of the thing. the function is to make you bang your head and go, fuck yeah that's fucking cool. "aesthetico-political stance" seems awfully like elusive faff, but if we're gonna pretend otherwise shredding is also about surrender, in a way, as well as expression of raw primal emotion - it is wild, frenzied, intense. or to put it pretentiously, it's Dionysian, or better yet Bacchian - in the Euripidean sense. in death metal that (scalar) frenzy is balanced out with the death drive. the kinds of metal that employ shredding are generally maximal in the same way ardkore is - not a full-body high cos different drugs, but full aural overload.
there is a "why" to shredding. it's just not a question you're interested in asking, or an answer you're interested in hearing/knowing.
and btw frenzy is exactly what separates this from Vai/Satriale etc - they're all scales and no frenzy
2) is just your personal taste given as value judgment
why are feats of solo prowess "empty"? what's wrong with showing off? with dramas of masculine prowess (also, how is shredding inherently masculine)? the answer is nothing, you just don't like them. you prefer "expressive" guitars. post-punk, post-rock, shoegaze, noise rock. tasteful guitars.
which is fine, and not surprising - you're in a long honored tradition of intellectual critics who can't stand heavy guitars, from Zep + Sabbath on down
just wish you'd give it up with all the expressive v. masturbatory kind of nonsense.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
like I was just larking to begin but now it's a bit frustrating, especially coming from a dude whose opinion I respect on a bunch of things
to be so off-handedly dismissive of a whole continent of sound that you clearly don't know and aren't interested in getting to know
like when people denounce a movie without ever having seen it
and sidenote: I really regret bringing up that Clash bit, like Joe freaking Strummer of all people is the last word on playing guitars
The Clash was always punk rock critic bait (not a bad thing tbc) anyway. lumpen-punk was full of non-ironic guitar heroes from the very beginning, not least Steve Jones.
I mean fucking A James Williamson on Raw Power.
to be so off-handedly dismissive of a whole continent of sound that you clearly don't know and aren't interested in getting to know
like when people denounce a movie without ever having seen it
and sidenote: I really regret bringing up that Clash bit, like Joe freaking Strummer of all people is the last word on playing guitars
The Clash was always punk rock critic bait (not a bad thing tbc) anyway. lumpen-punk was full of non-ironic guitar heroes from the very beginning, not least Steve Jones.
I mean fucking A James Williamson on Raw Power.
Last edited:
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
and like, this is basic-ass rock with a delay pedal, with a vaguely Steve Hillage-y thing going on
if you like it more than some dude shredding that's cool but it doesn't make Curt Kirkwood an inherently more worthwhile guitar player
idk how that isn't coming across
if you like it more than some dude shredding that's cool but it doesn't make Curt Kirkwood an inherently more worthwhile guitar player
idk how that isn't coming across
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
guessed from the "our name is a phrase" but had to look it up to be sure cos I got zero truck with metalcore etc
can't rightly blame the English but indirectly for that one, American creation thru + thru. yet another terrible thing Earth Crisis has to answer for.
idk maybe if had gone more in the Integrity direction, but that ship sailed long ago into a sea of panic chords and edgy throat tats.
Last edited:
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Necrophagist is the apex of the juiceless Paganini fantasy version of death metal, Malmsteenism with death growls
(greatly not helped by the drum machine either - they can work for Godflesh-type heaviness but invariably sound terrible blasting)
for examples of extremely technical death metal that still bangs, check Demilich - Nespithe, Gorguts - Erosion of Sanity, the first 2 Crytopsy LPs
i didn't say they were good. just alright. gotta go there sometimes, most metalheads i was drinking with can't listen to gorguts in UK ime. agreed on the first two lps.
honestly im convinced that if i made a jazz album with loads of meaningless death growls and marketed it as melodic death metal people would lap it up. i dunno metal culture is a strange thing in the UK.
honestly im convinced that if i made a jazz album with loads of meaningless death growls and marketed it as melodic death metal people would lap it up. i dunno metal culture is a strange thing in the UK.
Last edited: