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Thread: Jazz Inquest

  1. #31
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    the very fact that jazz-rock / fusion was conceived and promoted as music for concert halls, rather than clubs or ball rooms (as i think it would have been with the swing bands) shows something about jazz's evolution to that point i.e. away from the original audience and its original function

    more white people determinedly sitting on their asses while Weather Report smoke!



    i don't know enough about hard bop, but i find it hard to imagine it had the mass black audience that was looking to go out and have a good time at the weekend - not at a time when there was things like Louis Jordan or Ray Charles on offer
    Last edited by blissblogger; 11-10-2018 at 01:03 AM.

  2. #32
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    i think Weather Report and the others definitely wanted a dancing audience and the black popular audience - and a young audience too

    this is them virtually going disco (the critics hated it, i love it)


  3. #33
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    coincidentally a bloke i know just sent me this video of jazz funk fans seriously getting down in Brixton in 1978


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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    Did people really dance to free jazz?

    It seems more like an inward, cerebral kind of music - as fierce and blasting as it could be, and physically strenuous for its players

    I wonder if people danced to fusion? That was jazz embracing - and trying to siphon renewed currency and popular appeal from - dance forms of the time such as funk and disco

    But it's hard to picture people cutting a rug to Weather Report or Herbie Hancock, let alone Miles in On The Corner onwards mode.

    As fantastic as the grooves and the drumming etc are in a lot of that music
    The was a strong jazz dance scene, with crews from all over the UK competing hard. Brothers In Jazz (Leeds), Foot Patrol (MCR), IDJ (London) plus many others I can't remember.



    This clip shows BIJ but not the crew they were dancing against the full session is on Youtube somewhere.

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  7. #36
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    Snowboy wrote a book on UK Jazz Dance.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/JAZZ-FUNK-F.../dp/1438973608

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    i think Weather Report and the others definitely wanted a dancing audience and the black popular audience - and a young audience too

    this is them virtually going disco (the critics hated it, i love it)

    This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

    Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio

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  10. #38

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    Latter being the foundation post of ‘Blissblog’ therefore our blogosphere, therefore Dissensus, therefore this.

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  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

    Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio
    there's a detroit connection -

    hidden agenda sampled it for a metalheadz record too

  14. #41
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    Well, it's not some late-blooming perversity on my part, or getting soft and accepting in old age.

    Got into that Weather Report album in the mid-Eighties when I moved to London for the first time and the friends whose West Norwood flat I stayed in had it on cassette.

    Particularly dug "River People" and also "The Elders" - this really haunting Wayne Shorter tune.



    Later on got a bunch of Weather Report LPs from Music and Tape Exchange.

    There was even then a certain kitsch appeal to the florid artwork. And florid song titles. But mostly it just sounded great

    Musically I could probably find some commonality with Gilles and Kirk - it's more the whole sweep of it as a credo and a set of assumptions / biases. A view of history and where music goes wrong, the righteous path etc - that's what doesn't sit well with me.

    But he's a good bloke Kirk actually. Since that blog-launching fiery exchange I've had a few pleasant chats with him over the years.

    He does bang the "it all comes from black music, ALL of it," drum a bit stridently. There was some debate in which he was involved a few years back - it may have spilled onto the pages of Dissensus actually, via Zhao - about how Kraftwerk were deeply influenced by the Isley Brothers. I thought this was a silly claim. for sure, like anyone with any taste, Kraftwerk may have liked some Isley Bros tunes, the Motown stuff or the later "That Lady" guitartastic stuff. But to say that this would have been a formative thing in their music, more so than the Beach Boys and Schubert and minimalism and the Velvets - seems a bit like daft anti-Eurocentric overcompensation.

    He's a relative of Marc Bolan's, Kirk, would you believe?

  15. #42
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    I draw the line at acid jazz though. I can't go for that.

    Woebot can though. He wrote a whole piece on his blog about having had an acid jazz phase. I was quite taken aback!

  16. #43

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    I think we can all draw a line at Acid Jazz which was lame for all time.

    But have you yet got over your Whitney-phobia? Because the rest of us have.

  17. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by craner View Post
    This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

    Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio
    nah, it was just you whiteboys being contrary for the sake of it.

    Kirk is a scholar and a gentleman but there is one thing missing in his taste, I agree with matthew/woebot. terror is necessary in music.

    I don't know about Gilles Peterson tho so I won't comment.

  18. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    Well, it's not some late-blooming perversity on my part, or getting soft and accepting in old age.

    Got into that Weather Report album in the mid-Eighties when I moved to London for the first time and the friends whose West Norwood flat I stayed in had it on cassette.

    Particularly dug "River People" and also "The Elders" - this really haunting Wayne Shorter tune.



    Later on got a bunch of Weather Report LPs from Music and Tape Exchange.

    There was even then a certain kitsch appeal to the florid artwork. And florid song titles. But mostly it just sounded great

    Musically I could probably find some commonality with Gilles and Kirk - it's more the whole sweep of it as a credo and a set of assumptions / biases. A view of history and where music goes wrong, the righteous path etc - that's what doesn't sit well with me.

    But he's a good bloke Kirk actually. Since that blog-launching fiery exchange I've had a few pleasant chats with him over the years.

    He does bang the "it all comes from black music, ALL of it," drum a bit stridently. There was some debate in which he was involved a few years back - it may have spilled onto the pages of Dissensus actually, via Zhao - about how Kraftwerk were deeply influenced by the Isley Brothers. I thought this was a silly claim. for sure, like anyone with any taste, Kraftwerk may have liked some Isley Bros tunes, the Motown stuff or the later "That Lady" guitartastic stuff. But to say that this would have been a formative thing in their music, more so than the Beach Boys and Schubert and minimalism and the Velvets - seems a bit like daft anti-Eurocentric overcompensation.

    He's a relative of Marc Bolan's, Kirk, would you believe?
    I saw zhao defending the USSR in a marxist group I was in the other day lol. thought who was this tankie and why do i have a mutual with him and then saw his soundcloud/mixclouds.

    As for kraftwerk, it would be strange to think they weren't influenced by James Brown.

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