Acid rap aka. dematerialised materialism
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Judging it off Migos and Future, people who've been established stars for almost a decade now, is a great way to determine who's trying to speak to a greater change in rap. I agree. Ice Cube in 1995 was totally not defanged and toothless. Tupac hadn't become a poster for college domiciles alongside Bob Marley and Scarface (the ultimate things that are likewise cartoonishly reduced and used to bookend his persona) or a totem for people he literally hated to use for poignance.
There's also the thing of, I mean, it's not quite meant for anyone here folks and we're getting a bit full of nothing.
"Physical Graffiti is a good indicator of the culture"
luka
Well-known member
yeah, this is an promising line of investigation. migos and future are old and you're right that none of us have any idea what the new thing is.
so what that allows you to do is, not just sneer at us for not knowing (although that is an opportunity not to be missed, rub it in if you've earned it, i would) but to show us what we've been missing and explain it's import and what is new about it, what directions it opens up and so on and so forth.
so what that allows you to do is, not just sneer at us for not knowing (although that is an opportunity not to be missed, rub it in if you've earned it, i would) but to show us what we've been missing and explain it's import and what is new about it, what directions it opens up and so on and so forth.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
TBF Barti's speaking as the Zeppelin enthusiast in this metaphor. He's out here like "No I'm not going to listen to The Who, they don't have the range". Or more accurately, he's already heard Rakim, why go back and acknowledge Spoonie Gee?
The problem I have is with Third's establishing that this should be transcendentary or polemic in a way that speaks to what rap did before in a social way when in reality they're working inside a society we have pretenses to thinking we belong to. Thug's extravagance is working against dressing down in Atlanta, Migos are sniping at biters in self-absorption. Their worlds are more myopic than the greater world.
There's a phrase in rap that's always going on, 'campaigning' and in Atlanta that's especially true because you're literally building your audience bit by bit in a big city but also a city with it's own dialog with a massive country. Block to block Mixtape handing, local club shows, negotiating from DJ to DJ, and then having a presence in Atlanta which feels big but is also not big at all because who knows you in NYC, LA, Chicago, etc? Rappers are appointed successes more than anything and all their activity nearly always is in reaction to whom they position themselves in reaction to.
You don't acquire that knowledge until you immerse. Otherwise the stuff about Thug I rambled about in the Atlanta thread is left out and you're left with the "Young Thug is eccentric... weird... he's like BOWIE!!!" inanities that most press felt necessary to fall into for the sake of convenience.
The problem I have is with Third's establishing that this should be transcendentary or polemic in a way that speaks to what rap did before in a social way when in reality they're working inside a society we have pretenses to thinking we belong to. Thug's extravagance is working against dressing down in Atlanta, Migos are sniping at biters in self-absorption. Their worlds are more myopic than the greater world.
There's a phrase in rap that's always going on, 'campaigning' and in Atlanta that's especially true because you're literally building your audience bit by bit in a big city but also a city with it's own dialog with a massive country. Block to block Mixtape handing, local club shows, negotiating from DJ to DJ, and then having a presence in Atlanta which feels big but is also not big at all because who knows you in NYC, LA, Chicago, etc? Rappers are appointed successes more than anything and all their activity nearly always is in reaction to whom they position themselves in reaction to.
You don't acquire that knowledge until you immerse. Otherwise the stuff about Thug I rambled about in the Atlanta thread is left out and you're left with the "Young Thug is eccentric... weird... he's like BOWIE!!!" inanities that most press felt necessary to fall into for the sake of convenience.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Anyway the problem is there is no one thing that's new that can instantaneously displace this; it's a factionous time rn in rap and a lot of that is kept down unless it's absorbed into this 'flattening'. So "The Hip New Thing" both doesn't help the thread nor does it wipe this away because this is the commercial bloat of the now.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
A better rockist analogy would be to say that Future Swag is Crazy World of Arthur Brown’s ‘Fire’ and that Migos/Young Thug/etc. are Black Sabbath.
Arhtur Brown comes up with this idea of making spooky, devlish rock music which is clear in the lyrics and presentation of the music. However he made not a single sonic inroad into inventing Heavy Metal; it’s still cheesy 60’s organs, still pop scales, etc.
Black Sabbath on the other hand introduce certain tunings, scales, etc. and actually invent Heavy Metal.
So you can say that there’s a lineage from Arthur Brown to Sabbath, you can say that there’s a debt there, that there are presentational similarities, but you can’t say that sonically Arthur Brown invented Heavy Metal and Sabbath didn’t. You can’t say that there was no innovation.
Likewise as Crowley (rather masterfully) documented there’s definitely lineage from Future Swag to the newer Atlanta stuff, there are presentational similarities, but there are objective, measurable, quantifiable sonic and musicological qualities that weren’t in Future Swag that came about around 2013. Those are innovations.
Arhtur Brown comes up with this idea of making spooky, devlish rock music which is clear in the lyrics and presentation of the music. However he made not a single sonic inroad into inventing Heavy Metal; it’s still cheesy 60’s organs, still pop scales, etc.
Black Sabbath on the other hand introduce certain tunings, scales, etc. and actually invent Heavy Metal.
So you can say that there’s a lineage from Arthur Brown to Sabbath, you can say that there’s a debt there, that there are presentational similarities, but you can’t say that sonically Arthur Brown invented Heavy Metal and Sabbath didn’t. You can’t say that there was no innovation.
Likewise as Crowley (rather masterfully) documented there’s definitely lineage from Future Swag to the newer Atlanta stuff, there are presentational similarities, but there are objective, measurable, quantifiable sonic and musicological qualities that weren’t in Future Swag that came about around 2013. Those are innovations.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Re: this and what Simon said about lyrics - reading an introduction to 'The Iliad', the author talks about how one theory of the text is it was either prompting of improvisation or a recording of material that was originally improvised. And Homer's famous epithets ("swift-footed Achilles", the "wine-dark sea", etc.) are considered to be mnemonic aids to the improviser.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer
Interesting to consider certain recurring phrases and images in rap (e.g. "Rollie on my wrist") as, not mnemonic aids, but as useful phrases to sew a verse together. Or even consider them perhaps of secondary importance to the rapper themselves - where it doesn't matter if what you're saying is original or clever, less still if it's profound or whatever. This is a less interesting argument than psychic armour, but it occurred to me as a possibility just now.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
The important thing I left out here is that often epithets are applied to e.g. characters when they aren't the most appropriate for the context, which shows that they are used as rhythmic fillers, and are modified according to what needs filling.
luka
Well-known member
crowley what i've done is, you sort of dodged the question, so i compiled the
new rap songs you wanted craner to engage with and i've assumed they contain
various embryonic futures you've identified and invested in and i hoped you
could talk us through them. the potentials they point towards and the new directions they open up for investigation. the floor's all yours!
new rap songs you wanted craner to engage with and i've assumed they contain
various embryonic futures you've identified and invested in and i hoped you
could talk us through them. the potentials they point towards and the new directions they open up for investigation. the floor's all yours!
luka
Well-known member
talk to us about the various factions. what is bubbling under? who's auditioning for the right to define the future? what trends can be distinguished? what is being reacted against and what form does that reaction take? what seems genuinely new and what is merely a triangulation of existing trends?
i love the energy of jumping in and going lol at thinking migos and future are future, that wave has broken and receded long ago, youre so english and out of touch... but we have to follow through.
first the jeering then the wedgie.
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sadmanbarty
Well-known member
splash, drip, ice, water, wet, rain drop; a aquatic strain of materialist psychedelia (blissblog might want to mention '1983 a merman i should be').
it's liquid; in the drum and bass meaning of the word you could say this stuff's liquid rap.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
diamonds, shine, glowing, spotlight,
psychedelic materialism.
psychedelic materialism.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
has he referenced another song more in his entire career?
EmpressJess
Well-known member
Are SadmanBarty and CrolweyHead the Ross and Rachel of Dissensus?
i don't think it necessarily has to be polemic, i just don't feel anything for much ambient textures. miles davis did melodic ambient with in a silent way. xenakis did harsh ambient with persepolis. bukem did rhythmic ambient from 93-96. What more do you need really? Why the prissy fiddling with Eno's uncircumcised cock? derrick may did tearjerking ambient, etc... With three 6 mafia (lil jjon and affiliated projects) there was an updating of electro sonics. otherwise i don't care about the lyrics of most 00s rap either but that doesn't always have to be the point. what are metroboomin's and mikewillmadeit's standouts? the production is totally standardised. It's like going to tesco in audio form.