luka

Well-known member
barty was the boy-king. he left because everything got really weird here and there was constant fighting paranoia weirdness that i'ts probably better not to go into. we will never recover until the prodgial son returns. but in the meantime, we'll make the best of things.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
Childrens music is a good way to put it. I wonder if it was originally heard as juvenile or that grew with age. Theres something repulsive about its clunky, happy go lucky adolescence.
it's really interesting to me how music that's so cheery, naive, and futuristic came out of an environment as bleak as nyc in the 80s. the completely angsty stuff that gets labelled no wave would have been happening in the same city at about the same time, right? compared to that, even on an extra-musical level this stuff feels like more of an achievement somehow. i thought this video was an interesting portrait bc of how it highlights that discrepancy between environment and music:

 

linebaugh

Well-known member
it's really interesting to me how music that's so cheery, naive, and futuristic came out of an environment as bleak as nyc in the 80s. the stuff that gets labelled no wave would have been happening in the same city at about the same time, right? compared to that, even on an extra-musical level this stuff feels like more of an accomplishment somehow. this video is an interesting portrait for that reason:

Believe so. same time, different part of town. Bliss blogger was talking about that recently:
there was no real NEED for punk in NYC, it was bohemian slummers who were living a fairly unconstrained life in downtown, living on incredibly cheap rents, - so punkNYC had no real politics to it, it was a lot of posturing and druggy transgressive stuff - nihilism, a fair amount of artwank

Interesting that the two scenes were the inverse of each other in that way. Makes the no wave guys look like even bigger knobs.

Cant speak without bias on the bigger achievement though as 80's no wave produced some of my favorite music ever
 

luka

Well-known member
one interesting thing to think about is whether it was experienced as cheery naive childish etc. at the time. im not sure it was. i remember reading an article in the sunday times as a child about Run DMC and how their concerts were full of thugs and killers and i think, although i can't remember, that the music itself was framed as threatening.

grime has undergone the same transformation in perceptions. a lot of people found it threatening at the time in a way which seems difficult to recapture now.
 

luka

Well-known member
the further the distance you get the more innocent and joyful all music seems. just the eternal spirit of music flowing through each generation and the associations with thuggishness and aggression and menace all melt away.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
one interesting thing to think about is whether it was experienced as cheery naive childish etc. at the time. im not sure it was. i remember reading an article in the sunday times as a child about Run DMC and how their concerts were full of thugs and killers and i think, although i can't remember, that the music itself was framed as threatening.

grime has undergone the same transformation in perceptions. a lot of people found it threatening at the time in a way which seems difficult to recapture now.
thats probably just the racism of the time talking, no? and not saying much as to how the music sounded
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
one interesting thing to think about is whether it was experienced as cheery naive childish etc. at the time. im not sure it was. i remember reading an article in the sunday times as a child about Run DMC and how their concerts were full of thugs and killers and i think, although i can't remember, that the music itself was framed as threatening.

grime has undergone the same transformation in perceptions. a lot of people found it threatening at the time in a way which seems difficult to recapture now.
well with more agressive stuff like run dmc (i think? haven't listened tbh) that makes sense. and also i mean, there's plenty of other old music from the same time and before that i don't hear that way, like no wave. i was more thinking of stuff like this:

 

muser

Well-known member
I
the further the distance you get the more innocent and joyful all music seems. just the eternal spirit of music flowing through each generation and the associations with thuggishness and aggression and menace all melt away.

I was thinking this about grime recently and its a nice way of framing it, i was thinking in terms of comparison to UK drill. It seems impossible to imagine it happening in the same way but it probably will, maybe not to the same extent though as menace is more intrinsic to the sound, perhaps when all the coded references become lost and meaningless.
 
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