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Thread: Bolsonaro

  1. #16
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    ah right beat me to the punch again

    I can see why he'd think it's important to make clear Bolsonaro isn't just Brazilian Trump

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraig (u.s.) View Post
    beat me to the punch there

    ya I'm sure there's a distinction and that it's important to understand (+ that Greenwald knows of what he speaks - doesn't he live in Brazil too?)

    but at a point the origin doesn't matter as much as the output which is clearly tied into the global alt-right by nw
    Yeah, he's definitely part of it now anyway. Trump's in, Bannon's in. I'm sure Farage, Putin, Le Pen and the rest will get behind him soon enough.

    - - -

    Greenwald lives in Brazil, yeah. He's been there for years and lives with his husband and two kids. His husband's also a member of a socialist party so I imagine he's pretty worried given Bolsonaro's homophobia and rhetoric regarding the left.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Yeah, he's definitely part of it now anyway
    yeah I mean it's important to clarify that he (or really, his operation) is a native iteration of that Cold War/post-Cold War far right in Brazil's particular historical context, filtered thru the current moment of global reactionary blut und boden populism, rather than just a spontaneous Brazilian version of it, but the result is the same

    it is meaningful that we're starting to witness the first generation of fully realized post-Trump campaigns and elections

  4. #19
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    its tfw when you (Russian hacking ops, Cambridge Analytica, social media algorithms, dog whistle U.S. politics) unleash a force you can't control

    drop that fucking seething mess and general current existential fears into the history of Latin American political strife

    PT really dropped the ball too, has to be said. granted it's much more slippery to govern well than to courageously resist, and they got snowed, but still.

    your enemies are powerful and their hatred of you runs bone-deep. don't leave them a giant opening.

  5. #20
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    I try to hope for the best and plan for the worst but it sounds as though the former's already out of the question for the people of Brazil if this is legit - https://twitter.com/castriotar/statu...36519318122496

    - - -

    More than 20 Brazilian universities were invaded by the military police in the past 2 days. They confiscated material on the history of fascism, interrupted classes due to 'ideological content', removed anti-fascist banners and posters claiming that it was electoral propaganda.

    In the state of Rio, the court ordered the UFF faculty to remove from the Law School facade a flag with the message "UFF Law Against Fascism". The judge even determined the arrest of the director unless the flag was removed within 12 hours.

    UERJ also reported police forces removing flags in support of Marielle Franco and another one that reads "Anti-fascism UERJ". In Rio Grande do Sul, an event entitled "Against fascism, Pro Democracy" was also prohibited by the electoral court.

    In Mato Grosso do Sul, a public class entitled "Crushing Fascism" was also censored. In Pará, a lecture was interrupted by the military police that questioned the professor about the ideological content of the class and threatened to arrest him.

    Many other student movements and organizations reported military police forces inside classrooms, student units, academic directories, confiscating any sort of materials with 'anti-fascist' or 'pro-democracy' content.

  6. #21
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  8. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    well it has a federal structure Brazil right (i just read this in the Economist), so the different regional governments could obstruct to some extent. bit like with the USA where California and Oregon are holding fast against some of the Trumpian depredations.

    the rhetoric is terrifying though isn't... and the encouragement given to the police (or mobs of vigilantees) to crack down harshly is ruddy alarming

    that's why when you said about come start a commune in Brazil i thought 'hmmm perhaps not the most opportune moment in the country's history' to give that a go!

    and business is going to be unleashed on the Amazon to exploit right?

    what a nightmare
    all true plus so much more. a girl i know here told me people are already voting to have american style gun laws for protection. it's going to get messy. this in a country which has 100s of murders a day already.


    Quote Originally Posted by blissblogger View Post
    Sao Paolo is great - been there twice, never been to any other bit of Brazil

    it's so huge, though, i tried to go to a record store in what looked like a not that far away neighbourhood, and 46 mins later got there to find it was closed down
    it's a great city. was instantly charmed by the warmth of the people (who i've been told are cold by brazilian standards *shrug*), the architecture and all the cultural action. this is one of the safer cities in Brazil so maybe things won't get as hairy as say Rio. the commune plans are on the back burner for now. atmos is weird, people seem so unsure of their future. a lot of people want to leave.

    how is the world going in this direction all at the same time?


    @version are you in Brazil?
    Last edited by pattycakes_; 30-10-2018 at 02:14 AM.

  9. #23
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    Nah. I've just been reading about it for a few months.

  10. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes_ View Post
    how is the world going in this direction all at the same time?
    good question

  11. #25
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    My simplified view is that it's the result of arrogance, complacency and greed on the part of the liberal ruling class.

    They had it made, all they had to do was keep people relatively comfortable and offer a very narrow choice of candidate come election time and they'd have continued to make a lot of money whilst presiding over a relatively stable society. Instead they tried to squeeze more and more out of people, making them less and less and less comfortable, whilst continuing to offer the same narrow choice of candidate. If the choice you offer doesn't solve the issues then eventually people will look elsewhere hence Trump, Brexit and the rest.

    It's like that bit in The Dark Knight when he's trying to work out the Joker and Michael Caine has to explain the situation to him:

    You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.

  12. #26
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    I think what's happening now is a perfect storm of problems and dissatisfaction arising from the handling of the '08 financial crisis, social media and various other online platforms offering a voice to extremists who would normally be isolated from each other and the public and the stuff I said above.

    I imagine there's also a domino effect of people seeing that these extreme figures and ideas can actually win and being carried along by the wave. Online it's a lot of the same people getting behind them and they have a lot of momentum, the same people are behind Putin, Le Pen, Trump, Bolsonaro, Orban, Duterte and so on. There's this huge propaganda network that just jumps behind any far right candidate and bombards social media with misinformation, memes and so on.

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  14. #27

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    Good shout. On top of that, I'd add that the global trauma of 9/11 has never been resolved. Not that it could have ofc. It was the beginnings of the new breed of psychological terror which has now been totally normalized and interwoven into the fabric of our reality. It also coincided with the Internet going mainstream which obviously plays a megalithic role. The aftermath giving us this sense of paralysing uncertainty. The thought that at any minute we could be killed by a crazed fanatic is an actual reality now. Even though we know how slim the chances. I believe that no matter how resilient we think we are, this style of trauma has an automatic instinctual reaction in us, and whoever is tending the strings knows this all too well. Putty in their hands. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but I believe that this stuff is lurking in the depths of our collective subconscious and bleeding out into our daily interactions. We got dark.

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  16. #28
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    I recently read an essay on Bleeding Edge (Pynchon) which covered this stuff - https://www.berfrois.com/2014/09/bleeding-edgers/

    For Pynchon, the terrible irony of Germany’s newest technology of destruction is that if you hear the sound of the V-2, you have not been killed by it. Because it flies at supersonic speed, it comes unannounced. Silence, soundless, then sudden death. Only after that silent destruction, there is, for the survivors, the crying of its approach that bleeds, acoustically, into the sound of its detonation.

    The logic of 9/11 could be described in a similar way, and, had it been written after 2001, “a screaming comes across the sky” could well be a description of the approach of the two planes flying into the towers of the WTC on the 11th of September. Two horrible, terrifying angels, made of shiny aluminum, appear in a sky that has mostly been described as steel-blue or azure.

    Although the planes are not supersonic, the attack strikes America completely unannounced, and thus with the greatest possible traumatic force. The fact that there are fetishists who comb through the 9/11 footage for the sound of the impact, and who hear in the explosion secret messages in the same, desperate way that others have seen the face of Bin Laden or Satan in the smoke, is due to the long shadow of that traumatization.

  17. #29

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    good answers, but not sure if they really get to why the response to those factors has such specific qualities

  18. #30

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    i.e., you can explain the global nature of what's going on with a common cause, but why does it give rise to a common response? why this explosion of RW populism specifically?

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